2019 Novel Coronavirus

[Orchid PE]

Clearly it comes from people killing their spouses after being quarantined with them for 6 months! I guess that counts as covid related deaths.

 

[Orchid PE]

 

[Road Guy]

I had a woman yell at me cause I was walking the wrong way down the aisle at Safeway tonight on the way home from work...

I mean it’s Safeway, even on the weekend they don’t have enough customers to justify directional aisles.

 

[txjennah PE]

I recommend that if you are on Instagram, to follow Jessica Malaty Rivera and Laurel Bristow. They are two infectious diseases researchers who do a lot of Q&As, for free, on their own time and not #sponsored, to explain a lot of what has been brought up in this thread already, including excess deaths. I know there is a lot of misinformation being spread, but I take comfort in knowing that I can get the right information from trained experts.  I think that is an important distinction here - trained experts in this field of study. Would you want to get your engineering information from some hack with a youtube channel? Why is this any different?  There are so many videos being spread over Facebook rife with misinformation and I am grateful that these scientists are putting out free resources to help combat the misinformation campaign.

That's all I have to say on the subject. 

 

[Road Guy]

yesterday the woman I cohabitate with treated her 100th Covid Patient - I get most of my opinions on the matter from her in all honesty - most of the people who are in "infectious disease" roles dont work with patients and are not seeing this up close - I dont know anything about those two ladies above but the ICU / Trauma Nurses and Docs  (including the one that lives with me) refer to the Infectious Disease people they have been invovled with so far as "bigger idiots than the politicians" again nothing against those two listed above, and this is just the snapshot I see from the people actually getting there hands dirty with this - Our house is a common drinking spot for bitter ICU nurses and the Trauma Doc that lives down the street that also works in the same circles..So i just get to listen to them vent & hear really shitty stories..

 

[txjennah PE]

Ok. That's a lot to unpack, but to be clear, Laurel Bristow (one of the infectious diseases researchers I posted about) works directly with COVID patients as part of her research...hence the expert opinion. I'm clearly not going to change anyone's inherent biases on here, but something important to consider when calling infectious researchers "bigger idiots than the politicians," especially when we have a president who thought that COVID would just happily disappear by Easter.

I can't.

 

[Road Guy]

Those were not my words, these are people that are in these rooms 12 hours a day (unlike the research people, who probably come in for a sneak peak and then go back and do "research" . tv interviews, etc) - if you havent spent a lot of time aroud real nurses, there isnt much of a filter. 

And again I dont know the people you referenced, not saying they are not great people, dont know, but I know the head of ID for the State here walked through the ICU where she works at the beginning of this and said "I dont see why you need an N-95 mask if the patient is on a ventilator" - which is where that comment came from - Which is a nice statement when you hide out in your office all day.

But all I am saying Is I view this through  the window that I have on this disease through someone I know (live with, married to, etc ) that has scene how the sauce is made..

 

[Orchid PE]

I looked up the two people on LinkedIn, and I personally wouldn't consider them "experts." It takes much more than a master's degree and some research assistant jobs to be considered an "expert" in my book.

 

[Platypus Engineer]

Those were not my words, these are people that are in these rooms 12 hours a day (unlike the research people, who probably come in for a sneak peak and then go back and do "research" . tv interviews, etc) - if you havent spent a lot of time aroud real nurses, there isnt much of a filter. 

And again I dont know the people you referenced, not saying they are not great people, dont know, but I know the head of ID for the State here walked through the ICU where she works at the beginning of this and said "I dont see why you need an N-95 mask if the patient is on a ventilator" - which is where that comment came from - Which is a nice statement when you hide out in your office all day.

But all I am saying Is I view this through  the window that I have on this disease through someone I know (live with, married to, etc ) that has scene how the sauce is made..

I have a fair idea of how the sauce is made also. Have cousin that is nurse, a brother that is firefighter. Some of the stories they have told are from first hand experience. MY brother is officer and made any repsonding to call fully suit up even before department required it.

With regard to the experts, there have open contradictions on what to do. DR Mask/No Mask (fauci) was sitting at a baseball game in an empty stadium with people on either side of him. One of the other experts seems to have an endless supply of scarves. And an outdoor motorcycle rally would spread the virus, but protesting shoulder to shoulder in the streets would not.

Decisions are made about opening businesses but some of the limits placed on them mean they cant be profitable. Kings Dominion a theme park outside Richmond VA was allowed to have 1000 people inside it. They didnt open because said they could not make money with number of people. Same happened at an outdoor concert venue between DC and Baltimore, could only have 250 at it. they didnt open. Hell it might take 250 just to put on show.

Honestly, a lot of times, it seems stuff is being thrown at a wall to see what sticks.

 

[Platypus Engineer]

I looked up the two people on LinkedIn, and I personally wouldn't consider them "experts." It takes much more than a master's degree and some research assistant jobs to be considered an "expert" in my book.

Agreed. Or like my job where having an alphabet soup of certifications after your name makes you an expert. And some of these people could not engineer their way out a paper bag.

 

[Orchid PE]

Then there are people that like to have everything shutdown because it hurts the economy. When the economy doesn't look so great before an election, it's easier to sway undetermined voters.

 

[Road Guy]

What struck a nerve with my wife and her coworkers was when (local and state) politicians put down very strict measures for everyone else,  meanwhile they are all expected to be at work early, dont be late!, dont get sick either lol!  - for example there was a thing to close office breakrooms here, yet they all are expected to cram some food down in a tiny room shoulder to shoulder and then back to the Rona Room! - Certainly the same for Emerg Personnel, Grocery Store Employees and others.

They gave the ID person at her hospital a big award, literally this person rarely left their offic. In fact they all (the ones who havent quit yet) got chastised for being too negative and not picking up extra shifts, blaming them for a lack of retention -  I would hope most people know the primary reason for poor retention is poor / non existent leadership.

but its hard to explain, been a long 7 months at my house, be glad when this shit goes back to where it came from.

 

[Tiger15]

A lot of this comes down to perspective. I don't know any of the specific people yall are taking about, but more generally so many people lack the ability to see things from any perspective but their own.

I would say that the nurses and doctors on the front lines are the experts understanding the progression of the illness and treating the sick people.

Epidemiologists and infectious disease experts are the experts when it comes to understanding how the disease is spread and what measures are needed to stop the spread.

Those are two very different perspectives that can easily arrive at two very different conclusions. That doesn't mean that either is right or wrong. They are both probably right about their specific areas of expertise, but it takes all of those experts working together to figure out the best path forward.

That's supposed to be the leaders' job. To take in the information from the various experts (front lines, scientists, economists, sociologist, etc) and find the solution that does the most good (or the least bad). It doesn't seem like much leadership is happening right now.

 

[txjennah PE]

I am so glad that everyone here with professional engineering licenses can determine whether someone is an infectious diseases expert just by looking them up on LinkedIn, rather than making any effort to hear the data and studies they present!!!  That is so encouraging!!!  Please continue posting more articles about medical overlords!!!!!!!!  Clearly I'm with the right experts!!!!!!

 

[Road Guy]

jeanpaul-

I dont disagree with your post, one thing missing is that the docs / nurses see the types of people struggling to make it out of the ICU, and by type I mean:

• An existing medical issue
  
• Overweight
  
• Lack of exercise (Does your body push O2 through the blood with ease or struggle?)
  
• Smoker / ex smoker
  
• History of Drug Use
  
• Booze Abuse
  

There are outlyers but not many, when I hear that "we dont see many people who look like you" it does make me personally worry less about this- does it make me careless and go stage diving at an underground bar? also no..

txjenna - Im not saying those people are not experts, Emory people are usually pretty solid and 100X better than any hospital here in Denever.  I am just relaying a true story of an "expert" who walked through an ICU and told Licensed Professionals that it wasnt necessary to wear an N95 if they were in a sealed covid room for 12 hours"  - Background is the Licensed Professionals were bitching because the hospital wanted them to wear surgical masks even though they had and have a basement full of N95's - I would question this persons judgement. This person is also not a licensed professional.

 

[Road Guy]

also I really like and appreciate the discussion here- 

and I also like to argue so sorry in advance. I try and think of something to irritate Dleg when he wakes up accross the pond..

 

[Orchid PE]

I am so glad that everyone here with professional engineering licenses can determine whether someone is an infectious diseases expert just by looking them up on LinkedIn, rather than making any effort to hear the data and studies they present!!!  That is so encouraging!!!  Please continue posting more articles about medical overlords!!!!!!!!  Clearly I'm with the right experts!!!!!!

Coming from a person that gets their information from Instagram... 

If you want to trust someone in the field that as very little experience when compared to actual experts in the field, that's on you.

 

[txjennah PE]

Coming from a person that gets their information from Instagram from experts who share data, publications/citations, and resources with their followers

FTFY

 

[Orchid PE]

You say we shouldn't just trust any hack off youtube,  but instagram is ok? When someone actually looks into the credentials of the people you mentioned, you get sarcastic?

How can you possibly defend not researching someone before accepting they're an expert in their field? It would be completely foolish for someone to immediately assume these two ladies, that have relatively no experience when compared to prominent infectious disease experts, are experts based solely on the information they provide on instagram. How do you just assume everything they say is correct?

Credentials are what back up an experts arguments. Would you trust an infectious disease "expert" that has only been doing research for a few years over someone that has been doing the research for 30+ years?

It's just foolish. 

Nobody was under any assumptions that the author of an article online was an infectious disease expert, yet that's what you implied with your sarcasm. Nobody even said that everything this author said is factual, but what it did provide was alternative ideas and ways of thinking to the topic at hand. Yet you immediately wrote if off by only reading the headline. 

It sounds like you've already made up your mind about who and what you want to believe, and got aggravated when people called you out on these so called "experts."

I'm just saying, it doesn't appear to me like these people are experts. And they can put whatever sort of information they want on their social media accounts without it being verified. If I want factual information, I can get it from the CDC or from accepted research papers. Not from an instagram story.

If I want to hear what the common people think about the virus, that's when I'll get it from articles and social media. But I'm under no assumption these people are experts.

 

[Orchid PE]

How in the world did I get roped into this conversation when all I did was spend a little time researching someone and deciding they didn't have enough experience for me to trust??? I at least gave them my time.