2019 Novel Coronavirus
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You know what @Chattaneer PE, if you want to base your assumptions without following these women, the work they do, and the information they present (which is all based on studies either directly from the CDC and/or peer-reviewed papers), then that's cool. I'm clearly not going to convince you otherwise.
And I didn't just randomly found these women this morning when I posted about them on this thread. I have been following them for months. I trust their credentials, I trust the data they present because it's done in a very clear, logical way, and their data aligns with the general scientific consensus regarding COVID. Those are the metrics I choose for my information.
And I didn't just randomly found these women this morning when I posted about them on this thread. I have been following them for months. I trust their credentials, I trust the data they present because it's done in a very clear, logical way, and their data aligns with the general scientific consensus regarding COVID. Those are the metrics I choose for my information.
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A random jk weigh-in:
This is interesting for me because though I'm not working directly with covid patients, or "cohabitating" with someone who works with them, I do work in a medical facility where a majority of the patients tick all the boxes of covid impacting them at a higher and more serious rate. Since I'm in the engineering department, we have had to implement government mandates coming down from up above as well as listening to our infection control staff on what we can do to potentially limit the spread. Our infection control staff are RNs who have worked in the VA for an extended period of time, they're usually internal hires. The major issue for our facility was the lack of PPE, be it N95 or SCBA or face shields, as well as maintaining the safety of non-patient care personnel.
The VA has not been teleworking, so I have been talking to the shops, making sure that things are running as smoothly as possible as we work to put PPE measures in as well as we can while also improving the facility for patient care (an ongoing issue before covid). We've had really good leadership at the facility-level. Since the beginning our director has been explaining what is going on, what can be done for our patients, and how things may go back to the norm. When there is a contradiction, or things have changed, our Director has been fairly upfront and has explained things as well as she could, creating a panel of experts at our facility and discussing the things that were heard at the national level.
There have been contradictions, but I also believe that when something of this scale appears, affecting the whole world, not just our country, there will always be contradictions. It's like a giant game of pandemic telephone.
Countries that normally mask when ill have been masking/are more used to a mask and did not have to really change their social patterns, and yet their cases are potentially rising (I believe I read that somewhere, please feel free to correct me). There has been a lack of information from other countries or information coming out that seems to skew wildly against what other countries are stating. Others are claiming victory when this isn't really understood and though the death toll might be attributed to underlying conditions, one has to wonder if covid is helping along natural selection.
My main concern during this 9-month period of time is that there has been a lack of leadership at out country "director" level, CDC puts out guidance and literally two days later they pull it. Is this because an expert weighed in? Is this because someone told them to pull it because they were more of an expert? I would just like more clarity without it seeming so cloak and dagger with lives on the line.
Maybe I'm an idiot, since this is my first job in healthcare and I'm not even dealing directly with patients and prob never will, but I do think that the fact that nurses are still wearing higher than normal PPE (which is still limited) at my facility makes me think this is slightly more dangerous than the common cold. I do believe that closing down was the right thing, but it should have been handled better. The government as a whole should have been more supportive of the people who needed to close down, instead of shoring up airline companies, and there should have been in-place a more robust panel to evaluate how to help the American people.
Right now? I'm just worried.
This is interesting for me because though I'm not working directly with covid patients, or "cohabitating" with someone who works with them, I do work in a medical facility where a majority of the patients tick all the boxes of covid impacting them at a higher and more serious rate. Since I'm in the engineering department, we have had to implement government mandates coming down from up above as well as listening to our infection control staff on what we can do to potentially limit the spread. Our infection control staff are RNs who have worked in the VA for an extended period of time, they're usually internal hires. The major issue for our facility was the lack of PPE, be it N95 or SCBA or face shields, as well as maintaining the safety of non-patient care personnel.
The VA has not been teleworking, so I have been talking to the shops, making sure that things are running as smoothly as possible as we work to put PPE measures in as well as we can while also improving the facility for patient care (an ongoing issue before covid). We've had really good leadership at the facility-level. Since the beginning our director has been explaining what is going on, what can be done for our patients, and how things may go back to the norm. When there is a contradiction, or things have changed, our Director has been fairly upfront and has explained things as well as she could, creating a panel of experts at our facility and discussing the things that were heard at the national level.
There have been contradictions, but I also believe that when something of this scale appears, affecting the whole world, not just our country, there will always be contradictions. It's like a giant game of pandemic telephone.
Countries that normally mask when ill have been masking/are more used to a mask and did not have to really change their social patterns, and yet their cases are potentially rising (I believe I read that somewhere, please feel free to correct me). There has been a lack of information from other countries or information coming out that seems to skew wildly against what other countries are stating. Others are claiming victory when this isn't really understood and though the death toll might be attributed to underlying conditions, one has to wonder if covid is helping along natural selection.
My main concern during this 9-month period of time is that there has been a lack of leadership at out country "director" level, CDC puts out guidance and literally two days later they pull it. Is this because an expert weighed in? Is this because someone told them to pull it because they were more of an expert? I would just like more clarity without it seeming so cloak and dagger with lives on the line.
Maybe I'm an idiot, since this is my first job in healthcare and I'm not even dealing directly with patients and prob never will, but I do think that the fact that nurses are still wearing higher than normal PPE (which is still limited) at my facility makes me think this is slightly more dangerous than the common cold. I do believe that closing down was the right thing, but it should have been handled better. The government as a whole should have been more supportive of the people who needed to close down, instead of shoring up airline companies, and there should have been in-place a more robust panel to evaluate how to help the American people.
Right now? I'm just worried.
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Orchid PE
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I wasn't trying to be mean or talk bad about them when I said:
I was just merely pointing out I personally wouldn't be following them. That shouldn't have upset anyone.
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That's cool! Whatever you want to do. I like facts and peer-reviewed research, so I'll continue to follow them. I don't expect everyone to take my recommendation.
Orchid PE
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If it's cool, why the harsh sarcastic dig? Nobody initiated anything offensive after your original post, just other people stating their opinions. Yet after the opinions were stated, it appeared like lashing out with sarcasm. I did not take it to be a friendly tone. But if it was, then that's my mistake.
I'm not stopping anyone from expressing their opinions or resorting to personal attacks. I don't perceive my comments to be harsh, but we can agree to disagree. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Platypus Engineer
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I don't want to give away too much of what I do. Obviously I am an engineer and not a doctor or a nurse. But I have been working directly in the COVID response, and as an in-between among all of the associated professions. I see the front line people and hear their side. I hang out with the epidemiologists and modelers and talk projections. I talk with hospital administrators and help them put together their requests for medical supplies and equipment. I then talk to the suppliers and find out what is and isn't actually available (supply chains have been totally f'd up this whole time and don't seem to be getting much better). I have worked to get lab equipment and supplies in at a time when that stuff was sooo hard to get, and the public just blamed the low testing numbers on our "incompetence". I have sat through meetings with elected leaders and heard the counter attacks between the epidemiolgists and business people. I listen to military medical folks criticize civilian doctors because they don't have endless supplies available like the military. And on and on and on.
All I can say from all of that is that there is no single profession that knows everything that is going on right now, or who has the right idea what to do. The fight between the ICU staff and the infectious disease people is sort of akin, in my view, to the engineer vs. driver dynamics in the movie Ford v. Ferrari. They each have their points, and each is an expert, but each has a different view of the situation and a different role in it.
And then you also have to factor in the on-going learning process. I posted months ago that it is amazing we know what we do about this virus already. We have developed an understanding of modes of transmission and vaccines in record time, compared to previous diseases. But most of what we know has only been learnable through statistics, which means months, millions of infections and hundreds of thousands of deaths to learn what we know now, and we still don't know enough. So yes, as an example, at the beginning of this thing the face mask and respirator advice was different, because we have learned more since then, and because of the supply chain problems.
There are so many facets to every aspect of this thing. It's awfully easy to sit back and pick at one thing at a time and think that you have it all figured out. Or that you have discovered the bad guy who was responsible for it all. But that's just not the case. It's a huge and hugely complex situation, that honestly is probably beyond the comprehension of any single person.
All I can say from all of that is that there is no single profession that knows everything that is going on right now, or who has the right idea what to do. The fight between the ICU staff and the infectious disease people is sort of akin, in my view, to the engineer vs. driver dynamics in the movie Ford v. Ferrari. They each have their points, and each is an expert, but each has a different view of the situation and a different role in it.
And then you also have to factor in the on-going learning process. I posted months ago that it is amazing we know what we do about this virus already. We have developed an understanding of modes of transmission and vaccines in record time, compared to previous diseases. But most of what we know has only been learnable through statistics, which means months, millions of infections and hundreds of thousands of deaths to learn what we know now, and we still don't know enough. So yes, as an example, at the beginning of this thing the face mask and respirator advice was different, because we have learned more since then, and because of the supply chain problems.
There are so many facets to every aspect of this thing. It's awfully easy to sit back and pick at one thing at a time and think that you have it all figured out. Or that you have discovered the bad guy who was responsible for it all. But that's just not the case. It's a huge and hugely complex situation, that honestly is probably beyond the comprehension of any single person.
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Platypus Engineer
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And a work related post:
If anybody needs PDHs, AISC is holding some online courses at end of month:
https://www.aisc.org/the-flash-steel-conference/?_zs=TvWhd1&_zl=Cmf87
If anybody needs PDHs, AISC is holding some online courses at end of month:
https://www.aisc.org/the-flash-steel-conference/?_zs=TvWhd1&_zl=Cmf87
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@RG, super weird about your meme, because at the VA we're like "Always wear your PPE. Mask on, over the nose. It makes the veterans feel safer and prevents the spread of covid and the flu"
Platypus Engineer
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Remember food choices are important
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