Presidential Election

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Who will better represent the American Public in The White House?

  • McCain

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • Obama

    Votes: 2 66.7%

  • Total voters
    3
I saw an add for a democratic challenger that detailed pretty good why we will never have any kind of consumption tax or “fair tax” while most of us pay 15-25% in taxes, there is a very large percentage of people who pay close to nothing in taxes, the ad, detailed how every time you buy groceries, movie tickets, gas, you would pay the 23% national sales tax. While I think the idea is great, the folks at the lower end of the tax bracket are going to see that they will have to start paying what the middle class pays and they will raise holy hell to get it stopped. Why should they have to start paying any sort of “fair share” now when they haven’t had to pay anything all these years (sarcasm)?

The thing with the fair tax is that we are already paying the 23% tax as a cost that is already built in to the price of the products we buy today. The price of any gizmo you purchase has all of the income and other taxes paid in its production already in the price. What the fair tax attempts to do is bring all of the taxes out in the open for everybody to see.

Also, to implement the fair tax, we would also have to junk the federal income tax structure along with all of the red tape that goes along with it. There is a very large industry built around compliance with the current tax laws. This industry is very resistant to anything even close to the fair tax.

 
I'd really like to know how they decide the order on the ballot, if each county makes its own. For those people who don't care and just check the first box they come to, (I've heard people say they have done it) it gives that group the extra votes.

They printed a copy of the official ballot in our local newspaper and it is not in alphabetical order. The rest of the positions also follow this same party order.

McCain/Palin Republican

Obama/biden Democratic

Cynthia McKinney/Rosa Clemente Green party

Bob Barr/Wayne A. Root Libertarian

John Joseph Polachek New

Charles O. Baldwin/ Darrell L Castle Constitution Party

Ralph Nader/ Matt Gonzalez independent

 
I'd really like to know how they decide the order on the ballot, if each county makes its own. For those people who don't care and just check the first box they come to, (I've heard people say they have done it) it gives that group the extra votes.
They printed a copy of the official ballot in our local newspaper and it is not in alphabetical order. The rest of the positions also follow this same party order.

McCain/Palin Republican

Obama/biden Democratic

Cynthia McKinney/Rosa Clemente Green party

Bob Barr/Wayne A. Root Libertarian

John Joseph Polachek New

Charles O. Baldwin/ Darrell L Castle Constitution Party

Ralph Nader/ Matt Gonzalez independent
My guess is that they group it based on the number of people registered, then alphabetize it within those groupings.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The thing with the fair tax is that we are already paying the 23% tax as a cost that is already built in to the price of the products we buy today. The price of any gizmo you purchase has all of the income and other taxes paid in its production already in the price. What the fair tax attempts to do is bring all of the taxes out in the open for everybody to see.
Also, to implement the fair tax, we would also have to junk the federal income tax structure along with all of the red tape that goes along with it. There is a very large industry built around compliance with the current tax laws. This industry is very resistant to anything even close to the fair tax.

your preaching to the choir, but I dont think most people are going to be able to comprehend all that, especially the ones that couldnt even figure out how to vote in Florida in 2000.

 
^^ From a state standpoint, that's how we do things in TN. There is no state income tax, and the sales tax rate is 9-10%, depending on what city/county you're in. I think its great. I feel like I pay less in (state) taxes here than I did in SC.
Yep, here in SC (at least in Colatown and Richco) you still pay 9-10% sales tax and you get to pay a state tax of 6%.

Jolly.

 
I'd really like to know how they decide the order on the ballot, if each county makes its own.
Each county has a ballot drawing.

When I ran for office, I attended the ballot drawing. Our county does it with lottery balls that have numbers on them. If there are 5 candidates for an office, then the candidates have a lottery in alphabetical order. First name gets first lotto ball, if its a 3, then he/she is 3rd on the ballot.

Kinda simple, but still fair.

 
Is there any chance we can get rid of the two-party system?
Anyone can run for president, as it is now.... What exactly do you mean?

I'll give you a story of life in a place where the two-party system broke down. Our present governor ran in a race against 4 other candidates, each representing a relatively equal number of voters. He won with about 27% of the total vote. He has been a total disaster on his own, but on top of that, you have a public who can rightfully say "we didn't vote for this clown!" It's pretty chaotic, and totally counter productive.

Because of all of this, a law was passed that will require whoever becomes governor to have at least 51% percent of the vote, and dicates run-off elections for the top two if noone can get 51%. We will find out how well that works next year.

 
your preaching to the choir, but I dont think most people are going to be able to comprehend all that, especially the ones that couldnt even figure out how to vote in Florida in 2000.

Sad, but true. The level of understanding of economics in this country is pretty pathetic. Most of what I have learned has been from reading due to personal interest rather than any class in either high school or college. I'm still amazed at how many people don't understand their own paychecks, much less how much they are paying in "hidden" taxes.

 
I'd really like to know how they decide the order on the ballot, if each county makes its own.
I guess its different for each state. In Oregon, they are required by law to randomly generate a list of letters and those letters are used to create the order of the candidates as they appear on the ballots. This is the text as is appears in our voter guide:

While the candidates’ statements for candidates running for the same office appear in alphabetical order by their last name in this voters’ pamphlet, you will notice that they appear in a different order on your ballot.Oregon statute (ORS 254.155) requires the Secretary of State to complete a random order of the letters of the alphabet to determine the order in which the names of candidates appear on the ballot.

The alphabet for the 2008 General Election is:

N, X, Q, H, Y, S, G, K, I, A, E, M, B, O, R, W, D, Z, U, J, L, V, T, F, P, C
Does your voter guide mention anything like this?

 
The alphabet for the 2008 General Election is:N, X, Q, H, Y, S, G, K, I, A, E, M, B, O, R, W, D, Z, U, J, L, V, T, F, P, C
For some reason, this brings to mind the fact that Indiana has tried on multiple occasions to change the value of Pi to 3.

 
Anyone can run for president, as it is now.... What exactly do you mean?
While anyone can run, only one of two parties can win...

When do you think will be the first time a non-Democrat and non-Republican becomes president? When will both the Democrats and Republicans lose control of the House or Senate?

Read more at Wikipedia and everything2

 
The business of our nation goes forward. These United States are confronted with an economic affliction of great proportions. We suffer from the longest and one of the worst sustained inflations in our national history. It distorts our economic decisions, penalizes thrift, and crushes the struggling young and the fixed-income elderly alike. It threatens to shatter the lives of millions of our people.
Idle industries have cast workers into unemployment, human misery, and personal indignity. Those who do work are denied a fair return for their labor by a tax system which penalizes successful achievement and keeps us from maintaining full productivity.

But great as our tax burden is, it has not kept pace with public spending. For decades we have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and our children's future for the temporary convenience of the present. To continue this long trend is to guarantee tremendous social, cultural, political, and economic upheavals.

You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we're not bound by that same limitation? We must act today in order to preserve tomorrow. And let there be no misunderstanding: We are going to begin to act, beginning today.

The economic ills we suffer have come upon us over several decades. They will not go away in days, weeks, or months, but they will go away. They will go away because we as Americans have the capacity now, as we've had in the past, to do whatever needs to be done to preserve this last and greatest bastion of freedom.

In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the burden. The solutions we seek must be equitable, with no one group singled out to pay a higher price.

We hear much of special interest groups. Well, our concern must be for a special interest group that has been too long neglected. It knows no sectional boundaries or ethnic and racial divisions, and it crosses political party lines. It is made up of men and women who raise our food, patrol our streets, man our mines and factories, teach our children, keep our homes, and heal us when we're sick--professionals, industrialists, shopkeepers, clerks, cabbies, and truck drivers. They are, in short, "we the people," this breed called Americans.
Portion of Reagan's first Inaugural Address

 
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