Presidential Election

[Dleg]

NOW we're talkin! If this was the kind of political discourse the rest of America was engaging in, we'd be in a far better place.

In other words, you made excellent points. Not sure I would vote for McCain at this point (yes, i am still "undecided" benbo, so maybe I'm a weirdo), but those are all points that previously drove me away from Obama.

 

[DVINNY]

I think that most who even 'somewhat' follows politics has long had their mind made up, BUT I know of many who aren't big into politics at all and are trying to find out who the right person is,

so yes, I think there are many undecided out there.

 

[benbo]

NOW we're talkin! If this was the kind of political discourse the rest of America was engaging in, we'd be in a far better place.
In other words, you made excellent points. Not sure I would vote for McCain at this point (yes, i am still "undecided" benbo, so maybe I'm a weirdo), but those are all points that previously drove me away from Obama.

Well I don't know if you are a weirdo or not, but you are pretty fickle because you just posted this yesterday -

"I don't particularly like Obama, but I dislike this kind of scare tactic more than anything, and it's lost McCain my vote (eh, who am I kidding. I can't vote anyway!)"

 

[benbo]

Fire up the ouija, because I am still undecided.
I know for sure I'm not voting for McCain, but I haven't decided amonst the others.

Yep, you might as well use a ouija because I can't imagine what you're waiting to hear in the next 14 days that will push you to, whoever, Nader or whoever it is you're supporting. I mean, it seems like you know what you believe in, and you certainly can't have any doubt after so long a campaign what the candidates believe in.

If it was actually close in Michigan would you be undecided?

 

[benbo]

I think that most who even 'somewhat' follows politics has long had their mind made up, BUT I know of many who aren't big into politics at all and are trying to find out who the right person is,

so yes, I think there are many undecided out there.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't get this. This has been the most talked about election of my adult lifetime. It has also been one of the longest campaigns, with so many debates and ads and everything else through all those primaries and the election. I don't see how anybody who is motivated to vote, to stand in what may very well be long lines on election day, can be undecided two weeks out. John McCain is saying the same things basically he said two years ago. Same with Obama. Now if you're talking strategic voting - looking at how close it is and deciding whether to vote for somebody who can acutally win, or send a message, I don't consider that undecided. Even my co-worker, who wouldn't be able to tell Biden from Palin, has an opinion (basically throw the bums out which is always his opinion).

I wish somebody who is undecided would let me know what they expect to happen in the next two weeks to zero them in.

 

[Dleg]

Well I don't know if you are a weirdo or not, but you are pretty fickle because you just posted this yesterday -
"I don't particularly like Obama, but I dislike this kind of scare tactic more than anything, and it's lost McCain my vote (eh, who am I kidding. I can't vote anyway!)"

I can't figure out what you don't understand. I don't particularly like Obama. I was leaning toward McCain for several reasons, including those just posted by DVINNY. But the crazy, divisive stuff coming from the McCain supporters has now made me reconsider. I am currently undecided.

And, I fail to see why I need to justify my decision processes to you, or anyone else.

(and it's true, I can't vote, which I think is a little unfair since I am a US citizen living in a US territory, so I will, at the very elast, excercize my 1st amendment right to talk about how I would vote, if I could).

 

[benbo]

I can't figure out what you don't understand. I don't particularly like Obama. I was leaning toward McCain for several reasons, including those just posted by DVINNY. But the crazy, divisive stuff coming from the McCain supporters has now made me reconsider. I am currently undecided.
And, I fail to see why I need to justify my decision processes to you, or anyone else.

(and it's true, I can't vote, which I think is a little unfair since I am a US citizen living in a US territory, so I will, at the very elast, excercize my 1st amendment right to talk about how I would vote, if I could).

Did I say you needed to justify your decision to me? All I said was that what you posted yesterday made it seem like you had decided. But, debating the issues and who you vote for - that is "justifying your decision process." I have no problem doing it, that's why I post on a thread like this. I don't see why you're getting upset.

 

[Dleg]

I'm not upset. I felt you had misunderstood me and I needed to clear it up for you, and also to provide you some idea with how a person could still be undecided, since you stated earlier that you didn't see how anyone could be.

 

[benbo]

I'm not upset. I felt you had misunderstood me and I needed to clear it up for you, and also to provide you some idea with how a person could still be undecided, since you stated earlier that you didn't see how anyone could be.

Okay. My mistake. Probably because I don't know anyone who is not rabidly on one side or the other this cycle. Now I know two people on this board.

 

[Dleg]

I'm surprised there aren't more people like me, or at least, that you haven't run into them. I can't remember whether or not it was Nader who said we are "faced with the evil of two lessers", but that's how this election seems to me, and most other elections I have lived through. If neither candidate particularly matches up with my priorities, and I refuse to "throw away" my vote on a third party, then I am truly left "undecided" and faced with choosing the lesser of the two evils. Which in this case is hard for me to discern.

 

[mudpuppy]

Now if you're talking strategic voting - looking at how close it is and deciding whether to vote for somebody who can acutally win, or send a message, I don't consider that undecided.

Well, ok you've caught me. I guess I do have a bit of strategery going on. I'm torn between voting for my usual party (Libertarian) or against the Republicans (i.e. for Obama).

Okay. My mistake. Probably because I don't know anyone who is not rabidly on one side or the other this cycle. Now I know two people on this board.

I wouldn't say I'm rabidly on either "side". I just hate one side less than the other.

 

[DVINNY]

I know a few people that say, "well, I know so and so and I know they are really really smart and into politics and they say to vote for Obama, but then I also know so and so who is also really really smart and they say to vote for McCain, I just don't know what to do"

^^ I've heard it more than once.

Also, I do not have a yard sign out as of yet, but do have a neighbor that has told me she doesn't follow politics, but always looks in my front yard when going to vote for City council, county commission, etc. etc. because she "knows that I always know who to vote for"

(BTW, I've had more signs in my yard for friends that are Democrats than for Republicans, so it's not a straight party ticket thing around here)

 

[benbo]

Well, ok you've caught me. I guess I do have a bit of strategery going on. I'm torn between voting for my usual party (Libertarian) or against the Republicans (i.e. for Obama).

Libertarians or Obama ???!!!!!! How in the world do you reconcile that? I guess maybe if the only really important issue is the attitude toward foreign policy.

THe current Libertarian candidate is Bob Barr.

Probably the only thing they remotely agree on is getting out of Iraq and maybe gay marriage.

Just off the top of my head, Barack Obama is for universal government funded preschool, a huge governmental medical insurance program which includes federal funding for abortion, banning conceal carry of handguns federally, and if nothing else at least some tax increases. He is a supporter of Roe v Wade and more liberal Supreme Court justices. He claims he wants to increase the troop levels in Afghanistan.

Bob Barr (and his party) are for a consumption tax like the fair tax, which is a regressive tax and definitely not for increasing taxes on anyone, the party is opposed to Roe v. Wade on federalist grounds (and Barr himself at least used to be for outlawing abortion - you know Ron Paul was ALWAYS anti abortion).

He is for almost no gun laws and I can pretty much be certain he isn't for universal preschool or government healthcare. Good Lord, he probably isn't even for federal government money going to education. And I'm certain he's for originalist judges. He wants to reduce the troops in Afghanistan, and would probably pull them all out if he could.

 

[mudpuppy]

This is my problem with politics. I can't find anyone who fits with what I think--so yes I am forced to consider widely disparate candidates.

 

[benbo]

This is my problem with politics. I can't find anyone who fits with what I think--so yes I am forced to consider widely disparate candidates.

Me too. I am probably more naturally a Democrat on the majority of issues, and am actually still registered D, but for my more important issues I currently line up Republican so that's where I go.

 

[DVINNY]

Bob Barr (and his party) are for a consumption tax like the fair tax, which is a regressive tax and definitely not for increasing taxes on anyone, the party is opposed to Roe v. Wade on federalist grounds

^^ Those parts are great for me, but I can't waste a vote on Barr.

 

[IlPadrino]

Is there any chance we can get rid of the two-party system?

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I gave Barr serious consideration, but I just can't get behind the guy. He changes political parties every thime the wind shifts.

I think McCain should really hammer the "If he wanted to run against GWB, he should have run four years ago." I also think he missed a great opportunity by not opposing that onerous bail-out bill.

 

[Road Guy]

I saw an add for a democratic challenger that detailed pretty good why we will never have any kind of consumption tax or “fair tax” while most of us pay 15-25% in taxes, there is a very large percentage of people who pay close to nothing in taxes, the ad, detailed how every time you buy groceries, movie tickets, gas, you would pay the 23% national sales tax. While I think the idea is great, the folks at the lower end of the tax bracket are going to see that they will have to start paying what the middle class pays and they will raise holy hell to get it stopped. Why should they have to start paying any sort of “fair share” now when they haven’t had to pay anything all these years (sarcasm)?

 

[chaosiscash]

^^ From a state standpoint, that's how we do things in TN. There is no state income tax, and the sales tax rate is 9-10%, depending on what city/county you're in. I think its great. I feel like I pay less in (state) taxes here than I did in SC.