SE Exam Oct 2019 Result

[StandardPractice]

Passing Cut Score: 27-AAII minimum. Overheard this from my cousin's wife's aunt who works out at the YMCA with a NCEES rep. 

On a serious note. I believe the cut score is all over the place. i'm sure there are some folks who have passed with a U in the afternoon, its just that us common folk will never know. 

 

[STR_BR]

Passing Cut Score: 27-AAII minimum. Overheard this from my cousin's wife's aunt who works out at the YMCA with a NCEES rep. 

On a serious note. I believe the cut score is all over the place. i'm sure there are some folks who have passed with a U in the afternoon, its just that us common folk will never know. 

I believe passing is either 28/AAAI or a high morning like a 31 or 32 if you get 2 IR in the afternoon.

 

[Titleistguy]

Passing cut scores likely change test to test bc the overall difficulty changes.  

 

[StruEng]

Maybe this was already answered in this thread but for those of you discussing GA, is there already grandfathering that takes place, or is anyone who works as a structural engineer required to be an SE? I believe my boss has been a licensed PE in GA for many years, but he hasn't taken any of the SE exams, so if our office gets a project in GA will he be grandfathered or should we be having one of our SE's get licensed there to take over for his registration?

 

[Duke]

To add to the cut score talk, someone on the last round claimed that they left one afternoon problem completely blank but still passed.

 

[Hindianapolis]

To add to the cut score talk, someone on the last round claimed that they left one afternoon problem completely blank but still passed.

I remember this vividly.....I could not believe it because it destroys all what we know about the cut score.

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

Maybe this was already answered in this thread but for those of you discussing GA, is there already grandfathering that takes place, or is anyone who works as a structural engineer required to be an SE? I believe my boss has been a licensed PE in GA for many years, but he hasn't taken any of the SE exams, so if our office gets a project in GA will he be grandfathered or should we be having one of our SE's get licensed there to take over for his registration?

It's a mess, but they accept the old SE I 8 hour exam or a minimum of 5 years of practice in Structural Engineering after passing the PE prior to January 1st, 2011 (total 9 years of experience, but you MUST have been licensed before January 1st, 2011). ANY licensure after January 1st 2011 arbitrarily requires the new 16 hour exam along with the other standard experience requirements.

 

[Titleistguy]

I remember this vividly.....I could not believe it because it destroys all what we know about the cut score.

That's pretty wild.  I'm curious if its even true or not - unless they somehow got close to perfection elsewhere on the test - which begs the question, if you're strong enough of an engineer to do so well elsewhere, what could have stumped you so hard that you left it completely blank?   I don't know if I buy this story or not.

 

[Duke]

http://engineerboards.com/topic/33495-april-2019-se-results-thread/page/31/?tab=comments#comment-7561524

 

[Titleistguy]

http://engineerboards.com/topic/33495-april-2019-se-results-thread/page/31/?tab=comments#comment-7561524

So I read through a bit of what they guy was saying -- I'm still not sure I buy it.  Just because someone typed it out on the internet, it doesn't mean its true.  When I pass I'll come on here and say I did ABBA CADABA the whole way through the morning, and passed while leaving 2 blank in the afternoon ...

But if that's the case I go back to my original point, if someone is strong enough to get 100% on essentially 6 of 8 problems, (adding both vert and lat together), what possibly could have thrown them so hard that they essentially left others blank? 

 

[Nathan55]

So I read through a bit of what they guy was saying -- I'm still not sure I buy it.  Just because someone typed it out on the internet, it doesn't mean its true.  When I pass I'll come on here and say I did ABBA CADABA the whole way through the morning, and passed while leaving 2 blank in the afternoon ...

But if that's the case I go back to my original point, if someone is strong enough to get 100% on essentially 6 of 8 problems, (adding both vert and lat together), what possibly could have thrown them so hard that they essentially left others blank? 

I believe you can pass leaving one essay problem COMPLETELY blank (no explanations, code references, "steps to complete") and still pass as much as I believe this:

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

So I read through a bit of what they guy was saying -- I'm still not sure I buy it.  Just because someone typed it out on the internet, it doesn't mean its true.  When I pass I'll come on here and say I did ABBA CADABA the whole way through the morning, and passed while leaving 2 blank in the afternoon ...

But if that's the case I go back to my original point, if someone is strong enough to get 100% on essentially 6 of 8 problems, (adding both vert and lat together), what possibly could have thrown them so hard that they essentially left others blank? 

I'm not saying I buy the story either, but time is such a factor that it is plausible the examinee simply did not get to the last problem. I agree people can claim anything on here and I wouldn't believe most of it without seeing diagnostic reports. Even then, I would consider an image analysis before assuming the report wasn't altered. Failing an exam is embarrassing, but there is also no guarantee people on here claiming they took the exam actually did so. They could just be trolls.

Using the two "closest" candidates from the previous post and assuming they are both accurate and true, I'll do a little analysis of my own. There was a candidate claimed a 23/40 with AAAA. That would be a rough score of approximately 74% assuming the afternoon problems are graded at 10 points apiece and an "acceptable" result ranges from 8 to 10 points (this candidate would be assumed to have a 90% average in the afternoon). Combined with the 33/40 + AAAU, this would indicate a cut score of approximately 75% to pass the exam (if you assume this candidate received (2) 9s and an 8 they would receive a 74% as well). With that being the case, a passing score assuming an unattempted afternoon problem would be between 36/40 with a low acceptable on (3) in the afternoon or a 33/40 with (3) perfects in the afternoon. Again, all I can say is the plausibility is there.

 

[dauwerda]

I recall the previous poster stated that time was the issue and they used the 4 hours to make sure they nailed every part of their 3 strongest questions/topics. I believe it, if 70% is needed to pass (per EET)  3 perfect question/responses on the afternoon would give you a 75%. 

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

Going the other way though, if you

I recall the previous poster stated that time was the issue and they used the 4 hours to make sure they nailed every part of their 3 strongest questions/topics. I believe it, if 70% is needed to pass (per EET)  3 perfect question/responses on the afternoon would give you a 75%. 

I don't believe that 70% is the minimum needed to pass. I think I personally scored better with the 23/40 AAAI, and I have already posted my diagnostic.

 

[Titleistguy]

Chaosmuppet... In the spirit of myth busters I'll definitely concede plausable.  That said there are some big unknowns here ... And you've made some reasonable assumptions, but be that as they may ...  I recall from my EET lectures this past summer that Dr. Ibrahim specifically said leaving a question blank is an automatic unnaccptable...which isn't a stretch of the imagination, he also went on to say you can't pass the test with an unnaccptable. How those two fit together no one knows .... We don't know if it's a fail bc of the grading formulation they use, or it may be more meta than that and some other pass / fail check they do.  Like checking minimum steel requirements or Cs value ... there could be something they do just to see if you attempt all the problems.

The one where the poster said he got started maybe that was enough to get him some partial credit or something but how can leaving a problem blank be ok?  Even if you score 100% on the rest?  And I don't mean from a score standpoint I mean from a fairness standpoint.   If we all knew you could choose 3 and crush them vs partial credit on 4 I'm sure some people would choose the 3 route. 

Its interesting,  but on its face I'm still skeptical.

 

[Hindianapolis]

I wish to add that his story slightly changed from the time we were waiting on the results, until it was revealed that he passed.

he wont from completely untouching the problem, to i started but couldn’t get far.

 

[Titleistguy]

I do have a question for people that have taken the test before.  Were there any PM questions you thought you bombed or did poorly on then found out later that it got you the I grade or even an A, when all the while you were certain it was a U?

 

[Titleistguy]

I guess what I'm asking is how big is that threshold from unacceptable to improvement required vs acceptable... is it an even 33,33,33 split or is it more like 0-50 is U, 51-80 is I, and 81 to 100 is A?

Bc I feel like the I grade actually starts below the passing threshold.  Which is why multiple I can still lead to a fail even if accompanied by two solid A and decent morning score.  

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

In all likelihood (at least from my experience), not only do you need a certain grade overall, but you are also required to have at least a 70% minimum on each part. If this is the case, you would need a minimum of 28/40 in the morning and roughly a IR IR IR IR to a A A A U in the afternoon to get a 70% average in morning and afternoon. I don't know but from the previous data, this analysis seems close to me but not quite there assuming an A is 8 to 10 points an IR gives 7/10 points and a U yields 0 points. It would seem you also have to have at least (2) Acceptable in the afternoon. Assuming this is correct, the absolute maximum FAILING score you could have by this system would be 28/40 with A IR IR IR (8+7+7+7 = 29). This would yield approximately 71% maximum failing score assuming both sections are passed and you need at least (2) Acceptable results in the afternoon as stated previously.

For example:

27-AAIU - [failed because both parts = approximately 27/40 ~ 68%]
27-AIUU - [failed both parts. morning 68% and afternoon ~ 43%]
24-AAIU - [failed both. 60% and afternoon ~ 68% max]
23-AAAA - [failed morning approximately 58%] - The absolute minimum this examinee could have made is 69% total per my analysis. Average would've been 74% from my  previous analysis.
23-AAAI - [failed morning approximately 58%] - Absolute minimum score is 68%. Average would've been a 72%. High over 75%


23-AAIU - failed both parts

22-AAAI - failed morning
20-AAAU - failed morning
20-AAIU - failed both parts
18-AAII - failed morning
 
 
TehMightyEngineer’s previous research 
 
33-AAAU - The examinee failed the afternoon. Anything less than (2) 10's and an 8 would fail. Minimum score is 71%, average is 75%, and high is 79%.
32-AIIU - failed afternoon (highest possible is 60% in afternoon)
31-AIII - Right at the approximate cut score of 75% but needs (2) afternoon acceptables to pass.
31-AAIU - Failed the afternoon
30-AIIU - failed the afternoon
30-AAUU - failed the afternoon
28-AIII - Score of 71% indicating at least (2) afternoon acceptables required to pass.
22-AAAI - failed the morning.

 

[ChaosMuppetPE]

I do have a question for people that have taken the test before.  Were there any PM questions you thought you bombed or did poorly on then found out later that it got you the I grade or even an A, when all the while you were certain it was a U?

If it helps, I am fairly positive my assumption is correct with 80%+ being A, 70 to 80 being IR, and anything less being U. The cuttoff between IR and U seems fairly small but missing any whole "section" of the problem is an instantaneous IR.

Also, some problem sections may be heavier weighted. I.E. afternoon problems may have (4) parts with a 3, 3, 2, 2 distribution.