2019 Novel Coronavirus

[Supe]

I'm just glad Mrs. Supe is self employed, since she is not eligible to receive the vaccine.

 

[jeb6294]

There was a good article in the daily ENR email this morning. It was from the Monterey County Herald and referenced California law throughout. The article stated the biggest difference between C19 vaccine and all the others available/required for schools is the FDA has not explicitly approved it yet. They opined that there would be very few issues within industries like engineering. Healthcare, senior care and other public facing that can't work from home occupations were a whole another bag of works though.

Definitely a **** way to do it on the restaurants part.

Yeah, you lost me at "...California law..."

 

[Exengineer]

https://ceflix.org/videos/watch/1852060/bill-gates-what-you-were-not-told/goodgospelplaylist
Bill Gates "unsealed"

 

[Dleg]

I don't think an employer can require the COVID-19 vaccines at this time, since they are under an emergency use authorization (EUA) which is not FDA "approval". That's what I have been told through my channels. However I have also been told that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are likely 100% to be fully approved at some point in the near future, after which any entity including employers, school districts and even governments can mandate vaccination, should they want to. The Supreme Court has already upheld the power of States to do this, see Jacobsen vs. Massachusetts.

The hospitals where I am working are at about the 70-80% vaccination level now, all fully voluntary. It's over 90% at my place of employment.

 

[Supe]

I wonder if that's true of right to work states, though.

 

[mudpuppy]

I wonder if that's true of right to work states, though.

Seems like states that discourage unions would be even more likely to let employers force whatever they want (like vaccines) on employees?

 

[Supe]

Seems like states that discourage unions would be even more likely to let employers force whatever they want (like vaccines) on employees?

That's what I was getting at, or is there some law/FDA crossover that would prevent them from doing that.

 

[Tiger15]

I'm not an expert, but from everything that I found online, it's completely legal to be fired for refusing the vaccine, unless you can prove that you have a medical condition that prevents you from taking it, or you can prove that's it's against your religious beliefs. The fact that's it's only approved under an EUA has no relevance.

 

[pbrme]

...or you can prove that's it's against your religious beliefs.

So people that follow this guy ->
Can just go "Nope"??
Que the "have you or a loved one been the victim of job loss due to the vaccine mandate..." lawyer commercials.

 

[Platypus Engineer]

So people that follow this guy ->View attachment 21306
Can just go "Nope"??
Que the "have you or a loved one been the victim of job loss due to the vaccine mandate..." lawyer commercials.

Surprised those havent started yet

 

[Dleg]

I'm not an expert, but from everything that I found online, it's completely legal to be fired for refusing the vaccine, unless you can prove that you have a medical condition that prevents you from taking it, or you can prove that's it's against your religious beliefs. The fact that's it's only approved under an EUA has no relevance.

I'm not an expert either. But I have heard through reliable channels that the EUA is the reason the military is not requiring it, and that they will require it once it receives full approval. If the military doesn't believe they can require it, I wonder how any other employer could.

 

[Tiger15]

I'm not an expert either. But I have heard through reliable channels that the EUA is the reason the military is not requiring it, and that they will require it once it receives full approval. If the military doesn't believe they can require it, I wonder how any other employer could.

Is it that they can't require it? Or is it that they are choosing not to?
(Genuine question)

 

[Dleg]

Here you go, straight from the horse's mouth:

 

[bwin12]

Is the flu vaccine mandatory for occupations other than the military? Seems as though once the vaccine is approved by the FDA and not in EUA status, it will be of the same standard as the flu vaccine and therefore could be mandatory?

 

[snickerd3]

medical field in some places. Staff mandatory, volunteers flu shot or wear a mask.

 

[Tiger15]

Did some more digging. Lots of grey area and conflicting info. To my best interpretation:

• Generally a vaccine released under an EUA can't be required.
• But the Secretary of Health and Human Services has a lot of leeway in this area.
• Also there's a concept call "direct threat"
• If it can be proven that an unvaccinated employee poses a direct threat to others AND the threat can't be eliminated through other means, then that employee could legally be let go.

Each of the above bullets is linked to a different legal article where I found the info.

 

[jeb6294]

Not gonna lie, I'm not going to read all the articles, but based on your interpretations, seems to me a company could be in some trouble if they try to fire people for not getting the vaccine...then again, maybe not. Kind of goes back to the "does it" or "doesn't argument". If masks work so well like they've been preaching then how could you require someone to get the vaccine in order to keep from being fired if wearing a mask is a viable alternative? I'm guessing it's going to be a big mess that gets dragged out through the court system once the vaccine starts getting more widely distributed and people start getting fired for refusing and then suing their employers.

For the record, I'm sure I'm pretty far down on the list, but once I am eligible, I doubt it'll be terribly high on my to-do list. It's kind of like the flu shot when I was at the VA...if they tell me I have to get it then I will just because I don't care enough about it one way or the other.

On the other end of the spectrum, my wife is actively trying to figure out how she can get vaccinated. She left her travelling job and went back to the medical center in the Hamilton County Justice Center where she'd worked before, which not surprisingly, is way up there in risk of exposure. I guess in Ohio right now, they're basing it primarily on age and people who work in an actual hospital, because you know, only people who work in a hospital are really "health care workers".

 

[bwin12]

My inlaws are in Fairfield Township, and were able to get it just because they are old. My MIL works in the front part of a pediatricians office- I can't remember the details but it was a complete cluster f trying to get vaccines a month or so ago. I think my FIL got one at Walgreens, Or UDF. Not sure.

On the other end of the spectrum, my wife is actively trying to figure out how she can get vaccinated. She left her travelling job and went back to the medical center in the Hamilton County Justice Center where she'd worked before, which not surprisingly, is way up there in risk of exposure. I guess in Ohio right now, they're basing it primarily on age and people who work in an actual hospital, because you know, only people who work in a hospital are really "health care workers

 

[bwin12]

If it can be proven that an unvaccinated employee poses a direct threat to others AND the threat can't be eliminated through other means, then that employee could legally be let go.

Really stupid question- if "others" is vaccinated, is the unvaccinated employee a threat?

 

[Tiger15]

Really stupid question- if "others" is vaccinated, is the unvaccinated employee a threat?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No idea. I'm guessing it comes down to what you can prove in court.

If everyone in your office is vaccinated except for you, it seems like you could argue that you're not a direct threat. On the other hand if you're a waitress serving customers, that's probably a harder argument to make since you can't know everyone's vaccine status.