April 2021 Post Exam Wait Period - Welcome to the Suck

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Not really related to anything, but it always tickles me to remember this story: During my first attempt in Oregon there was a test taker who sat behind me who literally ONLY brought the NCEES FE reference book...for the PE exam. He sat kinda diagonal behind me, not directly behind (I could see he was taking Mechanical), so when the exams were handed out and we all started I saw his eyes were like dinner plates, hahahhahaha. So, I just remember hearing a LOT of frantic page flipping and audible sighing. Dude didn't come back after the lunch break. Soo....¯\_(ツ)_/¯
NO! how does that even happen!? If I walked in with just that book and saw literally everyone else in the room with suitcases of materials (or even standing outside waiting for the doors to open), I would seriously be questioning my life..... and yeah, I probably would not have come back for the afternoon either... yikes.
 
What?!? YOU were on another BOARD?? Well, I never... *hands on hips*

On topic: Gosh, that's a major oops. They only tell you to empty your pockets like...45 times before the exam starts...wonder if they were actually tryna subvert the exam or just really dumb.
So I read this one sounds more like dumb -

"

My DUMBASS got Kicked out-Phone withheld for investigation (I did Not cheat, but take full responsibility. I asked if I could turn my phone on after submitting AM exam-breached the guidelines and followed protocol) - wondering how long they will keep my phone for investigation, if anyone knows?Thank

 
NCEES literally took his Phone and would return in two weeks after investigation... asked his password and all.... the whole incidence is tragic but hilarious how he describes his detail dumbness lol
 
NCEES literally took his Phone and would return in two weeks after investigation... asked his password and all.... the whole incidence is tragic but hilarious how he describes his detail dumbness lol
people continue to amaze me every day....
 
.... if it's the latter, that's scary... if it's the former, they have no business being there anyway - how did they even pass the ethics course? after all the prep and hassle to get to that point in actually taking the exam, i just can't fathom jeopardizing it... but it seems to happen somewhere/somehow every exam.
Knowing the ethical thing and doing the ethical thing are two different concepts.
 
Not really related to anything, but it always tickles me to remember this story: During my first attempt in Oregon there was a test taker who sat behind me who literally ONLY brought the NCEES FE reference book...for the PE exam. He sat kinda diagonal behind me, not directly behind (I could see he was taking Mechanical), so when the exams were handed out and we all started I saw his eyes were like dinner plates, hahahhahaha. So, I just remember hearing a LOT of frantic page flipping and audible sighing. Dude didn't come back after the lunch break. Soo....¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dude at the Friday sitting came in with a little backpack. Took nothing out but his calculator. Finished in 2.5 hours.
 
I feel you. I’m 50/50 on whether or not I passed the exam this time. If I find out that I failed the exam a third time, after investing so much time into studying an even taking an online course where the pass rate is 88%... then I will seriously reconsider my career path
@5 to 9 FWIW, 4th time PE test taker here... I was in your shoes exactly 11 years ago. I didn't pass on the 3rd consecutive attempt, and like before felt deflated. I decided to take a couple months off for a mental break and plan to take it the following year 4/2011. This allowed me to adjust my study schedule to something more casual but with an overall increase in volume. The new plan included buying all of the 6-min. solutions (all depths), study guides, watching all the Khan Academy youtubes, etc.. hell I even taught my Dad a weekly engineering topic over a couple beers in the garage. It took me that couple month mental break to realize I wasn't preparing correctly. Everyone reading this will have various degree's of reflection on what they felt worked for them, this is just mine.

In short welcome to the suck, if you get the bad news, know you need to modify your tactics.

*Edit: Depths (afternoon's), it's been a while since I had to take this damn thing.
 
I keep wanting to go back to studying. It feels weird not studying. I still dream of problems.
I was like that after my second attempt. Maybe it speaks well of the rigorous study schedule before the exam, how over-prepared you were last week, and just keeping up the habit?

Actually, I said that I would give it a week and then study for one hour each day. It doesn't say anything about my confidence in my performance. It says something about how I don't want to start from square one if I have to sit for the exam again.
Or that...
Its too early to be resigned to have to take it again. Have confidence!
I feel like I skipped stage 1 and jumped straight into a mishmash of phases 2-4. It’s quite an interesting mental space to be in.
That's still the immediate aftermath of the exam, I'm sure that you'll settle down soon ;)

side note: I feel sorry for all the SEs out there. You all have to go through the pain the PE, then do it all over again for the even worse passing rate SE. That's rough.
And the PE only has one more P&P administration after this. I don't think NCEES has figured out how to transition SE to fully multiple choice much less CBT. IIRC there isn't even a legit schedule for the transition yet?

I feel you. I’m 50/50 on whether or not I passed the exam this time. If I find out that I failed the exam a third time, after investing so much time into studying an even taking an online course where the pass rate is 88%... then I will seriously reconsider my career path
This test doesn't define you, nor your ability to be an engineer. It's a hard test. Don't let it drag you down. It's not what defines your path.

So...SPAM thread? *ijs*
No one has made a spam thread yet.
@NJmike PE usually makes it. And the spam thread usually hits its goal when he starts it.
The one time I started the spam thread it didn't go very well.
I think @MadamPirate PE made the last one?
how are we still on the first page?
This thread usually starts out slow. People ask a few sporadic questions, it nearly stops between weeks 3-4, and then it really starts to pick up again as people start to wonder where their results are and why its taking so long.
i was on another board and read about two other people at other locations who got caught with their phones. i just.... like... what?!
That one always confuses me too. Maryland might be the outlier in that they ask everyone to check for a phone before the exam and give everyone an opportunity to turn it in first. It's not like the rules aren't super clear that communication devices are prohibited.

Wait, we can SPAM in the Suck thread??
I'd prefer not. The suck thread is for stressful stuff. The spam thread is about blowing off steam and having fun.
it's been a long time for me. I thought there was a separate thread for spamming but i can't remember where it is :(
@NJmike PE hasn't made it yet.
Yeah it's a separate thread. I don't think they ( @RBHeadge PE ?) created one this time.

I know last cycle there was almost no spam. I think it's basically just the CEs/SEs that are taking paper tests so not enough people to spam. All the other test with any significant numbers have moved to CBT and get results in less than a week.
^this.
Now granted CE's still make up like 2/3 of the exam takers. But as @vhab49_PE suggested it might be becuase CEs have have a more built in support systems at their workplace where PEs are so common in the discipline; vs the rest of us where PEs are less common and we need to seek out support online.
Well I was going over the reddit forums and people were discussing full problems for Water resources there....
They shouldn't be surprised when they get their exam scores invalidated. Every cycle there's always a few who post stuff online and get found out by the powers that be.
Also I feel guilty of not studying everyday after the exam... Watching tv for 3 hours feels like a crime.
Don't feel guilty. The exam is over, you can relax again. If things turn out poorly, then you can pick it back up in early August.
WRE is moving to CBT starting January 2022 ... I am worried it might get harder....
There was a common hesitancy among the community that things would get harder but that doesn't appear to be the case. The pass rates for the CBT exams are a little higher than the previous P&P counterparts.
I used to be on the "let others take the exam for a few months to work out the kinks" train. Now I think its better that examinees take it as soon as they're ready.
On topic: Gosh, that's a major oops. They only tell you to empty your pockets like...45 times before the exam starts...wonder if they were actually tryna subvert the exam or just really dumb.
.... if it's the latter, that's scary... if it's the former, they have no business being there anyway - how did they even pass the ethics course? after all the prep and hassle to get to that point in actually taking the exam, i just can't fathom jeopardizing it... but it seems to happen somewhere/somehow every exam.
I'll put on my "nuclear engineer hat" for a moment and repeat that I think that failure to follow procedure is unprofessional and disqualifying all by itself. But I get that the PE exam isn't a nuclear procedure and that mistakes happen. But it really is a bad sign if one disregards the obvious prep-work.

NO! how does that even happen!? If I walked in with just that book and saw literally everyone else in the room with suitcases of materials (or even standing outside waiting for the doors to open), I would seriously be questioning my life..... and yeah, I probably would not have come back for the afternoon either... yikes.
There's always that one person who comes in completely unprepared. They probably sailed through the FE and thought that the PE would be no different.
The shear amount of materials people bring amazes me. I get that some disciplines require more references but there *has* to be a practical upper limit.
If you're wasting a lot of time frantically leafing through multiple books for every problem then you probably aren't having a good day.
I've heard that, on the whole, the people who pass usually have less references than those that fail. It makes some sense since the better prepared know where to look for the information faster and may not bring the extraneous stuff. The second time I took it, I brought in two milkcrates of references. Things were sorted in a set way and I never even touched the second milk crate. In retrospect I probably could have done it with only 8 references.

Certainly a minimum number of references are needed too. First time I took it, there was another nukee in the room. He had two references: Lamarsh and the ANS study guide. I'm pretty sure he passed.

Knowing the ethical thing and doing the ethical thing are two different concepts.
👍
Dude at the Friday sitting came in with a little backpack. Took nothing out but his calculator. Finished in 2.5 hours.
Are you sure that he knew what he was doing and was successful. Or that he just gave up after 2.5 hours?
He seemed... cocky. Apparently he was doing construction depth? I dunno. He seemed to have a hard time grasping that he had to have his mask on. And didn't print his authorization form. "It's on my phone."
Sooo... it was the latter?

At least they acknowledge their f%^7 up and take responsibility for it.
 
Are you sure that he knew what he was doing and was successful. Or that he just gave up after 2.5 hours?

Sooo... it was the latter?
No clue. He came back for the pm session. There were a shocking number of people who didn't sit in the right place. I mean, your damn name is taped to the table. It's not that hard.
 
No clue. He came back for the pm session. There were a shocking number of people who didn't sit in the right place. I mean, your damn name is taped to the table. It's not that hard.
How on earth did people not remember where they sat?? We had numbered seats. I was damned sure I was going back to MY table. Ha!


side note: I feel sorry for all the SEs out there. You all have to go through the pain the PE, then do it all over again for the even worse passing rate SE. That's rough.
And the PE only has one more P&P administration after this. I don't think NCEES has figured out how to transition SE to fully multiple choice much less CBT. IIRC there isn't even a legit schedule for the transition yet?
Ha, thanks for the side note! Last time I checked (maybe a year or two ago??) the plan was for the S.E. to go CBT in either 2024 or 2025. I imagine that might have been extended because of Covid, but have no research to back that up. All I can say is, I really hope I’ve long passed by the time it’s CBT, or otherwise that they keep the essay questions and give us tablets to write on. I cannot fathom 80 MCQ for each S.E. Exam!
 
WRE is moving to CBT starting January 2022 ... I am worried it might get harder.... I don't know how it goes but thats why trying to get this over with this year...but the WRE depth was super lengthy and tuff... and I am glad everywhere I am reading opinion is the same.... I was through 12 questions only in the first 2.5 hours.... too much of calculations and no conceptual questions at all...also half the paper was environmental....wtf
I’m glad to hear WRE gets a little harder. I’ve heard too many times that it is the easiest PE exam for civil engineers. I know people who took this exam just because it is “the easiest one”, they said, even though it is not related to their daily work at all. I feel very upset when someone considering him/herself a structural guy/girl takes PE exam in WRE (because it is easier) and gets the same letters I do to, eventually, perform structural work.
 
How on earth did people not remember where they sat?? We had numbered seats. I was damned sure I was going back to MY table. Ha!




Ha, thanks for the side note! Last time I checked (maybe a year or two ago??) the plan was for the S.E. to go CBT in either 2024 or 2025. I imagine that might have been extended because of Covid, but have no research to back that up. All I can say is, I really hope I’ve long passed by the time it’s CBT, or otherwise that they keep the essay questions and give us tablets to write on. I cannot fathom 80 MCQ for each S.E. Exam!
NCEES site still says 2024 for the SE.
I’m glad to hear WRE gets a little harder. I’ve heard too many times that it is the easiest PE exam for civil engineers. I know people who took this exam just because it is “the easiest one”, they said, even though it is not related to their daily work at all. I feel very upset when someone considering him/herself a structural guy/girl takes PE exam in WRE (because it is easier) and gets the same letters I do to, eventually, perform structural work.
I don't know the first thing about WRE, so would never even attempt it, despite it being "easier". It might be easy to a WRE person, but I doubt a structural would think it so, unless they had to take some classes in that area.
And, what's to say that your structural person doesn't know WRE in addition to structures? Heck, I have contractors and architects telling me how to design things, why not a WRE expert as well.
 
That one always confuses me too. Maryland might be the outlier in that they ask everyone to check for a phone before the exam and give everyone an opportunity to turn it in first. It's not like the rules aren't super clear that communication devices are prohibited.
Ditto for NY. You could bring your phone into the exam, because it's frickin' NY, but before the exam started they requested phones. Each "group" of 24 was proctored by a single person, give or take. Phone had to be turned off and it was put in a plastic baggie. You could also put your food/lunch up there, since you weren't allowed to eat during the exam. You were allowed your phone during break, but you had to return before the exam restarted. Brooklyn was actually a little more lax than the upstate testing location; they allowed you to have hard candy on your desk. It sucked when I took my last exam/passed. I had a super bad cough from the colder temperatures and they wouldn't let me suck on my lozenges. So I just kept coughing throughout the exam. I tried to cover them as much as I could, but I def remember being miserable afterwards.
 
Ditto for NY. You could bring your phone into the exam, because it's frickin' NY, but before the exam started they requested phones. Each "group" of 24 was proctored by a single person, give or take. Phone had to be turned off and it was put in a plastic baggie. You could also put your food/lunch up there, since you weren't allowed to eat during the exam. You were allowed your phone during break, but you had to return before the exam restarted. Brooklyn was actually a little more lax than the upstate testing location; they allowed you to have hard candy on your desk. It sucked when I took my last exam/passed. I had a super bad cough from the colder temperatures and they wouldn't let me suck on my lozenges. So I just kept coughing throughout the exam. I tried to cover them as much as I could, but I def remember being miserable afterwards.
Iowa is the same. They ask as you walk in if you have any phones or smart devices, then again before they start. There is truly no excuse to still have it on you during the exam.
 
NCEES site still says 2024 for the SE.

I don't know the first thing about WRE, so would never even attempt it, despite it being "easier". It might be easy to a WRE person, but I doubt a structural would think it so, unless they had to take some classes in that area.
And, what's to say that your structural person doesn't know WRE in addition to structures? Heck, I have contractors and architects telling me how to design things, why not a WRE expert as well.
taking advise, yes. But would you let a GC build a mid rise without structural engineer? Similarly, why would you let WRE PE design a mid rise?

I sure respect a structural advise from architects and contractors, but they definitely don’t tell me how to design structures. They deal with structures on daily bases just from a different perspective than an engineer. Their advise to me is limited to choice of materials, architectural detailing, and constructability issues affecting structural design and detailing. They tell me what they prefer to see (not how to design it) and I do my best to make it work.

I know for sure that that person have no real life experience in WRE. If someone thinks that their knowledge in a subject that they have no real life experience in are better than what they do on daily bases, I kind a question their ability to do their daily structural tasks properly.

This is why I think introduction of SE for delegated structures throughout the states is very important. There should be a separation between all civil PE disciplines and structural design of delegated structures.
 
I’m glad to hear WRE gets a little harder. I’ve heard too many times that it is the easiest PE exam for civil engineers. I know people who took this exam just because it is “the easiest one”, they said, even though it is not related to their daily work at all. I feel very upset when someone considering him/herself a structural guy/girl takes PE exam in WRE (because it is easier) and gets the same letters I do to, eventually, perform structural work.
I mean, easier is subjective to everyone, and taking the Civil-WRE still requires you to know all the other civil subjects. Just because you take/pass a PE in one subject also doesn't mean you'll be acting as an engineer in that field your whole career (I know NY does not care what you got your PE in, because ethically you wouldn't be stamping something you didn't agree to). I mean, you could also just be a weirdo like @squaretaper LIT AF PE and take multiple PE exams because...idk. I think they were dropped on their head as a child, resulting in the whole English major to multiple language to engineering thing they have going on. Plus for structural work, you'd have to take the other SE exams, which no bueno for me, so if they're structural...I feel like getting that initial "PE" doesn't mean it's easier because you're going to have to take the specific exams as well (to be taken seriously) and if you do stamp as PE for structural even if your exam was in WRE...so what? All the exams are hard. It's only easier if you studied adequately for it (maybe) and ethically as an engineer you should only be stamping something if you agree with it and are okay with being liable for it.
 
I mean, easier is subjective to everyone, and taking the Civil-WRE still requires you to know all the other civil subjects. Just because you take/pass a PE in one subject also doesn't mean you'll be acting as an engineer in that field your whole career (I know NY does not care what you got your PE in, because ethically you wouldn't be stamping something you didn't agree to). I mean, you could also just be a weirdo like @squaretaper LIT AF PE and take multiple PE exams because...idk. I think they were dropped on their head as a child, resulting in the whole English major to multiple language to engineering thing they have going on. Plus for structural work, you'd have to take the other SE exams, which no bueno for me, so if they're structural...I feel like getting that initial "PE" doesn't mean it's easier because you're going to have to take the specific exams as well (to be taken seriously) and if you do stamp as PE for structural even if your exam was in WRE...so what? All the exams are hard. It's only easier if you studied adequately for it (maybe) and ethically as an engineer you should only be stamping something if you agree with it and are okay with being liable for it.
That's the big point, right? When you get your license, you are saying that you are competent in the field in which you are sealing things.
On another note, I also don't think that being able to pass the exam makes you a more competent engineer than someone who struggles to pass. If you think about it, do you feel that 75% of the structural engineers in this country are not competent? For the SE with a pass rate between 25-35%, is that TRULY indicative of the knowledge of our engineers? I like to think not.
 
That's the big point, right? When you get your license, you are saying that you are competent in the field in which you are sealing things.
On another note, I also don't think that being able to pass the exam makes you a more competent engineer than someone who struggles to pass. If you think about it, do you feel that 75% of the structural engineers in this country are not competent? For the SE with a pass rate between 25-35%, is that TRULY indicative of the knowledge of our engineers? I like to think not.
Yeah. Like, if someone whose main job was underwater basket weaving, but they had a PE, I'm assuming they'd ethically decide if they were competent or not to stamp something. I would never stamp something structural, but I sure as heck would stamp a remediation report. Would a structural person stamp? Maybe, but I know in one of my companies some of the PEs would defer to others with more experience since you are legally liable for junk.

As for passing the exam...Sometimes. I see people who passed. Who I'd never trust on a jobsite, but less run one, but they have their PE. So. Yeah. ...I don't think of the PE as an indicator of knowledge/competency, I believe your playbook of experience/published documents/current work is more important.
 
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