Response From Employer

[solomonb]

I am in the engineering/management consulting business. These are problems that we see all of the time. As an employee, you cannot ask for enough feedback, however, some engineers, lots of engineers are not the best communicators. If this is the boat that you are in today, do the best you can with what you have. Keep looking for something better and if it arises, go for it! One of the key things to remember here, and this is sometimes a hard lesson to implement, is that one day, soon, YOU will be the supervisor of the guy/gal that comes in and tells you that he/she has passed the PE examination. NOW, YOU are the one who has to make the decision on what to do. REMEMBER how you felt on either no recognition, tepid recognition, fair recognition or great recognition. Don't use the childish, "Nobody did anything for me, to hell with them" attitude. Perhaps your boss does not know what he/she should do. I know, perhaps a far stretch in logic and thinking, however, accept the premise and move ahead.

When I was with a very large fortune 10 organization, I would dip into my pocket to do things to keep the staff happy. I know, there is an argument for that as well, however, I did it and did not think anything about it. Yes, I had a great job and yes, I made good money, however, when you become a supervisor, you will probably make good money as well.

We do see that moving firms and locales is the way to increase salaries. However, do some move comparisons before you sign up for a $20K raise, only to find that it will take $30K to maintain the same standard of living where you are now!

If you are an employer/supervisor, heeding very carefully what many of these newly licensed millenial engineers are saying is important. It is true that finding a new replacement individual is well over a year's salary, once all of the tangible/intangible factors are included. It is also true that you may worry about "paying so much more" now as opposed to before. Just remember, the devil you know is often better than you don't know. The point here is that if you have a good employee and he/she is a productive team member, it is better to take good care of them then allow them to leave and have to find a new replacement.

Another factor for a supervisor/employer to consider is that today, most of the fat has been cut. There is no more fat to cut. It takes a certain number of human resources to run the organization. We encourage all of our clients to reward their staff fairly to a little bit better, because when this economic turbulence turns around, there are going to be many companies that will not have anybody working for them; all of the old folks have gone and found greener pastures. Something to think about.

 

[summit550]

So all you new Cali PE's ..... whats been the response from golden state employers?

 

[Bean PE]

Talked to the boss-man again, he totally understands the frustration of getting my PE and still being waaay at the bottom of the pay scale. Then mentioned that there could be issues with appropriate pay increases even if I beat the 30 other applicants for the single PE promotion they're giving out. I told him I'd flat out turn down the PE job if they expect me to stamp plans for $55k a year, when he gets back from the meeting he's in I'll inform him that if I can't get a reasonable pay increase soon I'll be looking elsewhere.

In a couple weeks I'll be on nights, Friday night through Tuesday nights, almost 70 hours a week, and my pay will be roughly what I should be making as a PE doing 40 during the day. Not worth it.

 

[dneva]

Talked to the boss-man again, he totally understands the frustration of getting my PE and still being waaay at the bottom of the pay scale. Then mentioned that there could be issues with appropriate pay increases even if I beat the 30 other applicants for the single PE promotion they're giving out. I told him I'd flat out turn down the PE job if they expect me to stamp plans for $55k a year, when he gets back from the meeting he's in I'll inform him that if I can't get a reasonable pay increase soon I'll be looking elsewhere.
In a couple weeks I'll be on nights, Friday night through Tuesday nights, almost 70 hours a week, and my pay will be roughly what I should be making as a PE doing 40 during the day. Not worth it.

Our company gives out an automatic 5.5% increase for passing the PE. Real happy with that.

 

[lihaasa]

2.5% raise and reimbursement of ALL expenses associated with PE exam (exam fee+books+review courses (if any)+airfare+hotel stay).

 

[HornTootinEE]

I am in the engineering/management consulting business. These are problems that we see all of the time. As an employee, you cannot ask for enough feedback, however, some engineers, lots of engineers are not the best communicators. If this is the boat that you are in today, do the best you can with what you have. Keep looking for something better and if it arises, go for it! One of the key things to remember here, and this is sometimes a hard lesson to implement, is that one day, soon, YOU will be the supervisor of the guy/gal that comes in and tells you that he/she has passed the PE examination. NOW, YOU are the one who has to make the decision on what to do. REMEMBER how you felt on either no recognition, tepid recognition, fair recognition or great recognition. Don't use the childish, "Nobody did anything for me, to hell with them" attitude. Perhaps your boss does not know what he/she should do. I know, perhaps a far stretch in logic and thinking, however, accept the premise and move ahead.
When I was with a very large fortune 10 organization, I would dip into my pocket to do things to keep the staff happy. I know, there is an argument for that as well, however, I did it and did not think anything about it. Yes, I had a great job and yes, I made good money, however, when you become a supervisor, you will probably make good money as well.

We do see that moving firms and locales is the way to increase salaries. However, do some move comparisons before you sign up for a $20K raise, only to find that it will take $30K to maintain the same standard of living where you are now!

If you are an employer/supervisor, heeding very carefully what many of these newly licensed millenial engineers are saying is important. It is true that finding a new replacement individual is well over a year's salary, once all of the tangible/intangible factors are included. It is also true that you may worry about "paying so much more" now as opposed to before. Just remember, the devil you know is often better than you don't know. The point here is that if you have a good employee and he/she is a productive team member, it is better to take good care of them then allow them to leave and have to find a new replacement.

Another factor for a supervisor/employer to consider is that today, most of the fat has been cut. There is no more fat to cut. It takes a certain number of human resources to run the organization. We encourage all of our clients to reward their staff fairly to a little bit better, because when this economic turbulence turns around, there are going to be many companies that will not have anybody working for them; all of the old folks have gone and found greener pastures. Something to think about.

Will you come give my employer some sense please??

 

[SF-Elec-Engineer]

2.5% raise and reimbursement of ALL expenses associated with PE exam (exam fee+books+review courses (if any)+airfare+hotel stay).

1) Considering the fact that the rate of inflation is usually around 3% per year, with a 2.5% pay increase, you will be making less this year, than last, in "inflation adjusted" constant-dollars, despite having earned your PE license.

Considering the fact that some surveys indicate that the building construction industry unemployment rate may be as high as 20%, we engineers, no doubt, should be thankful for our employment.

2) As as been observed, the quickest way to a substantial salary increase (i.e. considerably larger than rate of inflation) is to make a move to another company as an incoming PE.

As someone once told me, it's often the case among managers whether intentional or not, that the "non PE/new hire" will always be viewed as the "non PE/new hire", and will typically have smaller compensation, even after earning their PE license, relative to a someone who is hired from scratch as the established PE.

No doubt, businesses are always looking out for their best interest [cough] profit [cough]. "Good job, here is a payraise which doesn't even keep up with inflation, bwah hahah!"

Workers should do the same, and walk when our best interests are no longer being served.

Company loyalty is idealistic. I learned that a long time ago.

Jerry Maguire: "Show me the money."

 

[lihaasa]

2.5% raise and reimbursement of ALL expenses associated with PE exam (exam fee+books+review courses (if any)+airfare+hotel stay).

1) Considering the fact that the rate of inflation is usually around 3% per year, with a 2.5% pay increase, you will be making less this year, than last, in "inflation adjusted" constant-dollars, despite having earned your PE license.

Considering the fact that some surveys indicate that the building construction industry unemployment rate may be as high as 20%, we engineers, no doubt, should be thankful for our employment.

2) As as been observed, the quickest way to a substantial salary increase (i.e. considerably larger than rate of inflation) is to make a move to another company as an incoming PE.

As someone once told me, it's often the case among managers whether intentional or not, that the "non PE/new hire" will always be viewed as the "non PE/new hire", and will typically have smaller compensation, even after earning their PE license, relative to a someone who is hired from scratch as the established PE.

No doubt, businesses are always looking out for their best interest [cough] profit [cough]. "Good job, here is a payraise which doesn't even keep up with inflation, bwah hahah!"

Workers should do the same, and walk when our best interests are no longer being served.

Company loyalty is idealistic. I learned that a long time ago.

Jerry Maguire: "Show me the money."

2.5% increase effective immediately. This is in addition to the 6% raise I received at beginning of the year.

I do agree that one should be thankful for having a job in the current economic scenario.

 

[summit550]

2.5% raise and reimbursement of ALL expenses associated with PE exam (exam fee+books+review courses (if any)+airfare+hotel stay).

1) Considering the fact that the rate of inflation is usually around 3% per year, with a 2.5% pay increase, you will be making less this year, than last, in "inflation adjusted" constant-dollars, despite having earned your PE license.

Considering the fact that some surveys indicate that the building construction industry unemployment rate may be as high as 20%, we engineers, no doubt, should be thankful for our employment.

2) As as been observed, the quickest way to a substantial salary increase (i.e. considerably larger than rate of inflation) is to make a move to another company as an incoming PE.

As someone once told me, it's often the case among managers whether intentional or not, that the "non PE/new hire" will always be viewed as the "non PE/new hire", and will typically have smaller compensation, even after earning their PE license, relative to a someone who is hired from scratch as the established PE.

No doubt, businesses are always looking out for their best interest [cough] profit [cough]. "Good job, here is a payraise which doesn't even keep up with inflation, bwah hahah!"

Workers should do the same, and walk when our best interests are no longer being served.

Company loyalty is idealistic. I learned that a long time ago.

Jerry Maguire: "Show me the money."

2.5% increase effective immediately. This is in addition to the 6% raise I received at beginning of the year.

I do agree that one should be thankful for having a job in the current economic scenario.

IMHO, everyone should be "thankful for having a job" regardless of an economic downturn or in a booming economy, but being thankful for having gainful employment has absolutely nothing to do with whether you are getting paid appropriately for the job you do. Be thankful you have a job while looking for a better one you will be even more thankful for.

This whole just being happy to have work is becoming a crutch for employers to screw employees and for lazy employees to sit back and not try and better their situation (not saying anyone here is lazy). I don't know for sure, but I would be willing to bet that not one of the most successful people in the world has ever had the attitude that "I'm just happy to have work". It's a self imposed sentence of mediocrity that is all too easy to fall victim to.

I say be thankful and happy for what you have all the while pursuing more and better opportunities regardless of the present economic situation whether it be good or bad. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Chew0nthat]

in the civil arena, eits are usually held in lower regard than inspectors, materials testers, crew chiefs etc - at least by actual field personnel...but usually office personnel too . I don't know how many times i've seen foremen or project owners completely ignore the poor schmuck eit who actually assembled the design-bid specs (and is most familiar w/ it) just to converse soley w/ the PE or onsite survey / inspection crews.

That's true in a way. Before I got my PE, I always felt intimidated by engineers with PE but never with inspectors, testers , non-engineers. I always think that if I was prepared enough (project related) I can go toe to toe with anyone. :mf_followthroughfart:

 

[jassiinpublic]

I've already got the paper in hand and still no response from my boss. I asked him a couple of weeks ago if I should expect a change in responsibilities and compensation (tired of being the cheap EIT that gets thrown all the b***h work). Was told that the economy and the lack of billable work is holding back any possible change in either categories. Again, nothing so far. I feel like my career has been in Neutral for the last 2 years and my boss hasn't taken any interest in my professional development. I don't know what to do..... :sigh:

Edit : I should mention that I haven't had a COLA or a raise since Dec 2008 and no bonus. Meanwhile, I was skipped for the last round of promotions (after I sat for the exam but before I received the results) and the people responsible for bringing in projects still get bonuses. :yay:

 

[Van Liew]

I'm a structural engineer in the Power industry for a large corporation. Business has picked up, but everyone's scared to hire too many people if works dries up, which means a lot of overtime for everyone. (but to give those looking for a change hope, we are hiring a few good people)

It looks like company policy is a $200 month raise for PE, if required for your position. Being a big corporation I expect lots of beauracracy and it'll probably take a few months, but I do expect it to go through. The PE also opens the door for the next promotion that I'll be qualified for experiance-wise in a year or two. So overall, not great recognition, but not bad.

SF-Elec-Eng: Keep in mind inflaction was actually negative last year. So a 2.5% raise for 2009 is equivalent to a 5.5% raise in a typical 3% inflation year.

PS. The company did pay for all reference materials, test fees, and even a $700 class.

 

[Bean PE]

Found out my total reimbursement was the $270 exam fee, not even covering the $100 application fee to the state. No books. There's a staff meeting tomorrow morning and there are a lot of people unhappy about what's going on with pay (across the board pay cut starts this month). Only word on promotion was "we've got lots of applications, please be patient."

 

[summit550]

Found out my total reimbursement was the $270 exam fee, not even covering the $100 application fee to the state. No books. There's a staff meeting tomorrow morning and there are a lot of people unhappy about what's going on with pay (across the board pay cut starts this month). Only word on promotion was "we've got lots of applications, please be patient."

I've always wondered whether it's better to lay off a few folks and keep the those who remain at the same pay level. On the one hand everyone has a job but everyone is unhappy with the job they have (pay cuts and no pay raises) but on the other hand you can lay off a few and those you keep can stay at the same pay and maybe a raise here or there. Seems like the difference is making everyone somewhat unhappy or making a few very unhappy but keeping the rest very happy. But what do I know????

 

[DHoss83]

Found out my total reimbursement was the $270 exam fee, not even covering the $100 application fee to the state. No books. There's a staff meeting tomorrow morning and there are a lot of people unhappy about what's going on with pay (across the board pay cut starts this month). Only word on promotion was "we've got lots of applications, please be patient."

I've always wondered whether it's better to lay off a few folks and keep the those who remain at the same pay level. On the one hand everyone has a job but everyone is unhappy with the job they have (pay cuts and no pay raises) but on the other hand you can lay off a few and those you keep can stay at the same pay and maybe a raise here or there. Seems like the difference is making everyone somewhat unhappy or making a few very unhappy but keeping the rest very happy. But what do I know????

Yeah a lot of companies are wrestling with that decision right now. My company layed off a lot of people and still cut salaries 10% (no reduction in time worked). Going through it, I would rather they lay off who they need to stay profitable. Going a couple years with little to no change in salary is frustrating, especially when you are trying to support a family. It's a blow to moral also. My office is busy and profitable, but we are only 10% of the company and everyone else is struggling.

 

[sac_engineer]

Unfortunately, becoming a PE doesn't necessary mean you will get a raise. The old excuse of "it's the economy" is pretty weak and there is some strategy from management to get away with not paying you more money if they know you will stick it out and not go elsewhere. One approach you can take by asking for a raise is to ask if your billable rate will increase now that you're a PE. This is a genuine question if you closely work with clients and want to let them know that your hourly rate may increase as a result. If so, then it's only fair to receive reasonable compensation to reflect that increase your clients will pay and demonstrate that your increased liability has some added value.

If you can find work elsewhere where you'll be happier and properly compensated, then I suggest you pursue those opportunities. It's always during these times of economic uncertainty where people are not at their best and let their frustrations show a little more than they should, but most often those frustrations were deeply seeded even when times were good.

 

[navyasw02]

So based on this discussion, since it sounds like the PE will help more for your next job, what's really the incentive to stay at your current employer once you get your PE? Is it really just the fear of not having a job?

 

[summit550]

So based on this discussion, since it sounds like the PE will help more for your next job, what's really the incentive to stay at your current employer once you get your PE? Is it really just the fear of not having a job?

You are 100% correct (IMO).

Once an EIT always an EIT to your current employer. I see PE's with no real skills other than having passed the PE come in and have certain EIT's do the work for them and pass it off for themselves.

I just got my PE in June ( salos have a masters and been working as an engineer for 9 years) and within 30 days of recieving my PE was offered 3 jobs at 3 different companies for much much more for doing what I already do. The fastest way to move up is always to move to another company.

 

[sac_engineer]

So based on this discussion, since it sounds like the PE will help more for your next job, what's really the incentive to stay at your current employer once you get your PE? Is it really just the fear of not having a job?

You are 100% correct (IMO).

Once an EIT always an EIT to your current employer. I see PE's with no real skills other than having passed the PE come in and have certain EIT's do the work for them and pass it off for themselves.

I just got my PE in June ( salos have a masters and been working as an engineer for 9 years) and within 30 days of recieving my PE was offered 3 jobs at 3 different companies for much much more for doing what I already do. The fastest way to move up is always to move to another company.

However, there's a lot to be said to stay where you are, learn as much as you can, then leave with additional skills, and possibly clients, to your next job. If you already hated your job, regardless of earning your PE license, then it's wise to move on.

 

[navyasw02]

So based on this discussion, since it sounds like the PE will help more for your next job, what's really the incentive to stay at your current employer once you get your PE? Is it really just the fear of not having a job?

You are 100% correct (IMO).

Once an EIT always an EIT to your current employer. I see PE's with no real skills other than having passed the PE come in and have certain EIT's do the work for them and pass it off for themselves.

I just got my PE in June ( salos have a masters and been working as an engineer for 9 years) and within 30 days of recieving my PE was offered 3 jobs at 3 different companies for much much more for doing what I already do. The fastest way to move up is always to move to another company.

However, there's a lot to be said to stay where you are, learn as much as you can, then leave with additional skills, and possibly clients, to your next job. If you already hated your job, regardless of earning your PE license, then it's wise to move on.

Yea but if you're like summit and have a masters, the PE, and 9 years of experience, there's no point in staying if you continue to get undervalued. Then you're just losing time you could be establishing yourself elsewhere.