keeping the lines of agreeing to disagree' open here - there have been far more horrific wars fought having nothing to do with God (continuing to today). The root is always mankind's inhumanity to humanity (recognizing some wars Have to happen) - don't delude yourself into believing war, genocide, atrocities wouldn't occur if God & religion were historically absent
That's true, but far more people have been killed by Communist atheists - like Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao's Cultural Revolution. People will always find a reason to fight and kill each other.
I know, I was just kiddin' around with the poke of mine as well.
While it is true that those people were Atheists, the wars that they participated in were not based in religion (or lack thereof). The Crusades and Spanish Inquisition were fought/enacted based solely on religion. Can you point to a group of atheists that started an armed campaign against deists in order to spread their anti-religion?
not trying to pick on you Dan, but my goodness! does it really matter that the atrocities caused by atheist or non-religious regimes weren't based soley on trying to spread anti-religious message / ideology? And actually in the case of the communist regimes that is very debateable (witness wonderful society of China & N. Korea).
Wait a sec...I was simply refuting a point made specifically by benbo. I made the point that there have been wars fought only for/in the name of religion, and benbo said that atheists have fought wars. I don't dispute that fact, nor do I dispute that more wars have been fought over oil, money, power, imperialism, etc. than religion, but that still doesn't refute my original point...
Amen, DK.
It could be argued that any war started to spread communism was a war to spread atheism. Korea, Viet Nam, and Afghanistan spring immediately to mind.
Ok - point accepted; religion has been the sole cause of a # of wars thruout history & continuing to this day & very likely into the future. I didn't say anything about your statements being invalid, was simply searching for clarity on your stance. Lighten up Francis.
I would like to see that argued because everything that I have ever heard or read about communism points to it being purely a socioeconomic theory and system of government. It is completely devoid of religious language, either for or against. You may have associated the two in your head because some of the biggest proponents of communism in history have been atheists, but that does not mean that it is a part of the theory.
I think you and the Cap'n are confusing Secular governments with Atheistic governments.
opcorn:
From a purely theoretical point, you're right. But in practice the commies have been quite active against organized religion.
Feel free to add comments, roadwreck.Man, I avoided opening this topic until now (b/c I don't think anything can be gained by joining in this subject of conversation) but it looks like I missed some entertaining stuff. I guess I know what I'llbe reading today.
You are mistaken whilheldp_PE, Communism seeks to eliminate religion and absoulte morality. Communism has contradictions with both and in order for the State to assume its rightful place in a communist society all religious institutions must be removed from the social framework. That's paraphrasing Karl Marx in The Communist Manifesto and The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte.
