Religion and Engineers

[wilheldp_PE]

Mary, I get your point.
Thing is, they never will. Some people don't want to, or simply can't accept that some things can't be explained. At least not in our lifetime they won't be.

Scientists can't explain what's past our galaxy, they can hypothosize all they want. However, unlike wilheldp, I'm not infuriated by it. I accept that scientists don't know, and I move on.

I can easily accept that things will remain unexplained throughout my lifetime, and quite possibly many lifetimes beyond that. But that does not mean that I feel the need to assign some fictional belief system to that which I cannot explain.

 

[DVINNY]

But that does not mean that I feel the need to assign some fictional belief system to that which I cannot explain.

Neither do I.

I am not a Christian because I feel the need to explain the Universe.

I am one, because I can feel a presence within my existence.

I don't feel like I am alone in this unexplained universe.

I put positive energy and prayers toward something and it realizes.

Some people call it intuition, some call it 'listening to thier spiritual guide',

Some people call it "THE SECRET", I call it a greater power. God if you will.

My parents did not raise me this way. My parents do not attend church, although both claim to believe in God, I was not raised this way. It comes from a feeling within.

I have a personal story that really confirmed to me that there is something out there bigger than me, but I don't think those experiences are necessary for one to have faith.

I do feel sorry for anyone that thinks they need to try and disprove or argue anyone else's beliefs.

It reminds me of the radical muslims that feel if you don't think the way they do, they must blow you up.

 

[Chucktown PE]

I can easily accept that things will remain unexplained throughout my lifetime, and quite possibly many lifetimes beyond that. But that does not mean that I feel the need to assign some fictional belief system to that which I cannot explain.

You assume it's fictional, I assume it's true. Makes a big difference in the statement above. Also, I don't assign my belief system because there are things I can't explain. I have a belief sytem or faith that I chose and I believe that God chose me and I accept that there are some things that both my faith and science can't explain in this life.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

I am not a Christian because I feel the need to explain the Universe. I am one, because I can feel a presence within my existence.

I don't feel like I am alone in this unexplained universe.

You assume it's fictional, I assume it's true. Makes a big difference in the statement above. Also, I don't assign my belief system because there are things I can't explain. I have a belief sytem or faith that I chose and I believe that God chose me and I accept that there are some things that both my faith and science can't explain in this life.

That's fine, and I don't have a problem with either one. One of the few problems I have with religion is when it is used to explain the currently unexplained. If having a personal relationship with your deity of choice gives you a warm fuzzy, then by all means, have at it. But please don't try to stifle scientific or technological advancement because a story in the good book contradicts some recent findings.

If you're curious, the other parts of religion that bother me are the wars fought in the name of God, and the fact that organized religions are nothing more than multinational, multi-billion dollar corporations.

 

[Chucktown PE]

That's fine, and I don't have a problem with either one. One of the few problems I have with religion is when it is used to explain the currently unexplained. If having a personal relationship with your deity of choice gives you a warm fuzzy, then by all means, have at it. But please don't try to stifle scientific or technological advancement because a story in the good book contradicts some recent findings.

In what way does a belief in God stifle scientific research. I am not asking the scientific community to abandon carbon dating because we perceive that it may contradict Genesis. My personal belief is that there are no contradictions between the scientific world and the Bible and when we get to heaven this will all make sense. The engineer in me is really looking forward to that moment.

If you're curious, the other parts of religion that bother me are the wars fought in the name of God, and the fact that organized religions are nothing more than multinational, multi-billion dollar corporations.

There are evils associated with science as well and there is quite a bit of money to be exploited in the scientifc community.

Yes, you can find bad parts of organized religion but I'd say your only looking for the bad if that's all you see in organized religion. I know for a fact that my church and my denomination is not a multinational, multi-billion dollar corporation. I know how much the pastors make and how much money the church brings end and gives away. I also see and know how much good we do in this community and around the world through missions, charity, etc.

 

[maryannette]

But please don't try to stifle scientific or technological advancement because a story in the good book contradicts some recent findings.

On the same note, please don't try to stifle religious beliefs because a miracle has been explained by a scientific principle.

 

[DVINNY]

I also see and know how much good we do in this community and around the world through missions, charity, etc.

Same here, I know that my church alone fed dozens and dozens more people over Thanksgiving and Christmas than the local scientific research facilities did. How evil those organized religous types are.

 

[maryannette]

There are hundreds of religious groups in Texas (and probably still in Mississippi) helping people to put their lives back together after storm damage. I went on one of those trips. My husband has been on many.

I guess that is pretty illogical ... driving 2 days to get to a location where you will do hard manual labor for people you have never met. Oh, and using your earned vacation time for it.

Anybody got a logical explanation for this?

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Anybody got a logical explanation for this?

Nope...must be a miracle.

 

[DVINNY]

I can list things all day long that our church does that is helpful to all. We sent people to build for Habitat after Katrina as well.

However, I must concede to wilheldp that there are corrupt churches, there are those who are only after collecting money, there are many bad TV evanlegists, etc. etc.

My wife was born and raised Catholic, and I married her in the Catholic church, but she has now been United Methodist for the last 4 years, and she even stated that after seeing all the things our local church does, she can't name a handful that her old Catholic church did for the local community.

So it is different from church to church, and there are some bad apples. But wilheldp, don't let those bad apples be the example of what the whole big picture is. that is selling it short.

 

[csb]

Hey now...let's not go hating on the Catholics

This was in the paper yesterday and it made me think of a few pages back:

 

[EM_PS]

remember the episode of the Simpson's, where Homer got really smart? He somehow proved the non-existence of God, and gave his findings as a paper report to Flanders - who ultimately conceded he had done it, and then burned the report? Funny *** stuff! IMO, religion needs a hell of a lot less Flanders stigma [edit: in no way am i saying anybody here is a 'Flanders']

. . . .

(it was searching for above images that resulted in homer "tattoo" posted in funny pic thread - it is afterall, pretty funny)

 

[benbo]

I can list things all day long that our church does that is helpful to all. We sent people to build for Habitat after Katrina as well.
However, I must concede to wilheldp that there are corrupt churches, there are those who are only after collecting money, there are many bad TV evanlegists, etc. etc.

My wife was born and raised Catholic, and I married her in the Catholic church, but she has now been United Methodist for the last 4 years, and she even stated that after seeing all the things our local church does, she can't name a handful that her old Catholic church did for the local community.

So it is different from church to church, and there are some bad apples. But wilheldp, don't let those bad apples be the example of what the whole big picture is. that is selling it short.

I'm not sure how active your wife was in her church, or how active that particular parish was.

I am Catholic and my church passes out food to the homeless every morning. In the bulletin there are at least 10 outreaches to the poor, sick, and dying every week, plus entire groups devoted to it. Plus we visit orphanges in Tijuana every month to help. We are constantly donating money for assistance throughout the world. I think if you will look at the number of schools and hospitals the Catholic Church has built around the world you might be surprised. Not to mention that whole Missionaries of Charity - Mother Teresa thing.

Granted, there are a lot of things my Church does and says that infuriate me, but I don't think you can fault the Catholic Church overall on charity.

 

[Chucktown PE]

The Catholic church is still taking heat for the pope Leo X selling indulgences to build St. Peters Basilica in 1571. Seriously, that is what a lot of atheists point to as being what is wrong with organized religion because they remember this from their high school wester civilization class. I look at that and see all the good that came from it, the Protestant reformation. Think about all the believers that have been brought to through the reformation. Both Protestants and Catholics have done some bad throughout human history but IMHO the good far outweighs the bad.

 

[benbo]

The Catholic church is still taking heat for the pope Leo X selling indulgences to build St. Peters Basilica in 1571. Seriously, that is what a lot of atheists point to as being what is wrong with organized religion because they remember this from their high school wester civilization class. I look at that and see all the good that came from it, the Protestant reformation. Think about all the believers that have been brought to through the reformation. Both Protestants and Catholics have done some bad throughout human history but IMHO the good far outweighs the bad.

I would never criticize another person's specific church or belief or lack thereof. I might criticize particular aspects of a specific church's actions (including my own), but not the belief system overall. The truth is that in general I even try to avoid this, because I realize I am operating from a certain point of view, and often without full information. I never try to convert anyone, because I didn't dig that when I was agnostic. I also find that people usually pick out specific things and use that to condemn the whole. I don't care if someone is Muslim, Jew, atheist, agnostic, or Jain. I just ask the same from others. I don't think we need any thought police.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

But we are shorter, and 30% LESS bone density than cro-magnon
just saying.

Oh, I know. that's evolution as well.

My point is that evolution is possible even with a Creator.

 

[DVINNY]

Damn you religious types get all worked up. I said HER old Catholic church, not the whole church in general. geesh.

Fact is, it is a huge church in our area, but does not contribute the way that I feel that it should. That's all. Just my opinion, it means very little.

 

[DVINNY]

My point is that evolution is possible even with a Creator.

I would agree.

I've stated earlier, I believe we evolve to meet the demands of our environment, etc. I just will not believe that we came from single cell ameoba.

Doesn't mean I'm right either, but it's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[benbo]

Damn you religious types get all worked up. I said HER old Catholic church, not the whole church in general. geesh.
Fact is, it is a huge church in our area, but does not contribute the way that I feel that it should. That's all. Just my opinion, it means very little.

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant, but I wasn't sure. Actually, I wasn't that worked up about it, although maybe it seemed that way.

Similarly, our local Methodist Church is sort of a slacker.

j/k I don't know anything about it.

 

[Chucktown PE]

Damn you religious types get all worked up. I said HER old Catholic church, not the whole church in general. geesh.
Fact is, it is a huge church in our area, but does not contribute the way that I feel that it should. That's all. Just my opinion, it means very little.

I wasn't firing off on you either DV. I was more responding to wilheld_PE's comment that "organized religions are nothing more than multinational, multi-billion dollar corporations." which is total horse squeeze and commenting that the catholic church is still taking a lot of heat for something that happened 500 years ago.