Obma Tax plan Explanation

[Flyer_PE]

^^ I'm a big fan of the fair tax. I just wish it stood a snowball's chance in hell. The problem with it is that it can't be explained very well within a thirty second add. All the opponent has to say is that politician X wants to put a 23% tax on everything you buy. No need for them to mention that you're already paying roughly that same 23% as a "hidden" tax.

 

[Road Guy]

Carter tried "soaking the rich" during his presidency, I was young then, but I dont think that worked out very well...

 

[benbo]

A progressive tax schedule is almost by definition redistribution of wealth, unless you believe that the people in higher income brackets (and higer tax percetages) somehow benefit more from gov't spending than lower income brackets do.
Given this, I don't see how what you've written refutes what Dleg said. In Eisenhower's time the tax schedules were much, much more progressive (i.e. socialist) than they are now--or than Obama proposes them to be.

To an extent that is true. (That's why a lot of people advocate a flat tax or fair tax.)

However, there is a slight difference between taxing rich people a higher percentage and then throwing that into the pool for things everyone uses (highways, defense, etc), and charging rich people more so you can write a check to poor people (eg. welfare).

Eisenhower was pretty liberal, maybe why his granddaughter supports Obama. Kennedy was actually a tax cutter.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

The thing is, repealing Bush's tax cuts would bring back the marriage penaly and decrease the child tax credit.

 

[Road Guy]

its whats not in his plan that should scare people.

How does a 15% tax on your 401K sound to you?, I have a feeling that its coming......

 

[Capt Worley PE]

That'd kill investment. Well, maybe not seeing how many people contribute to Roth IRAs.

 

[Flyer_PE]

^^ There's a crap-load of money sitting out there in IRA's that the government would just love to latch on to. To some of those people, if you put it there tax-deferred, it's more theirs than yours.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Like we don't pay enough taxes already...

 

[BluSkyy]

This would illustrate a larger point about government: It's not what they say they're going to do with the powers they're asking for today that should scare you. Its what they could conceivably do with them in the future that should scare you

 

[benbo]

Somebody emailed this to me. Apparently it was on CNN, but I can't vouch for it -

Dueling Tax Plans:

TYPE Current McCain Obama

Capital Gains 15% 15% 20%

Dividends 15% 15% 20%

Income/Payroll (High) 35% 35% 43-45%

Estate Tax 45% 15% 45%

Corporate Tax 35% 25% 35%

Of course, I think there is a pretty big exemption on that estate tax, like 1 million.

I think they get the 43-45% from the eloimonation of child tax credits, etc. Luckily my kid turns 18 so it doesn't matter to me.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

1 million in estate isn't as much as you'd think.

 

[Flyer_PE]

^^ When the estate is a small business or a farm, 1 million is chicken feed.

 

[benbo]

1 million in estate isn't as much as you'd think.

Yeah, my mom's estate was larger than that. I was just clarifying that the first mill is free of estate tax. But depending on what it is and how it is set up you may also get hit with regular income tax and capital gains on top of the estate tax.

 

[Wolverine]

Another slight-of-hand deception is just WHAT taxes is he talking about when he says he's cutting taxes? Income taxes? Payroll taxes? Capital gains taxes?

:asthanos:

Okay, so you cut income taxes in my bracket, thanks, but then increase corporate taxes which makes my cost of living go up, and capital gains taxes which makes my savings go down...no thanks.

:dunno:

If you raise taxes on business, business passes those taxes along to the consumer, and everything becomes more expensive. Fundamentally, businesses don't pay taxes - it simply collects those taxes from consumers and forwards them on to the government (credit:NB).

:whipping:

But that's multi-variable thinking - A leads to B which leads to C, and the majority of the population are single-variable-thinkers. "He's going to lower taxes to 1990 levels (ie: raise taxes)? Aw shucks, that sounds good."

ldman:

 

[DVINNY]

^^^ exactly.

 

[Dleg]

I like the fair tax proposal. I'd vote for it in a heartbeat.

And a good point about welfare is that Obama didn't invent it - and McCain hasn't exactly proposed eliminating it, either. I'm no fan of it, and I think there are better ways of pulling the poor out of poverty. But no one is really talking alternatives to it - either increase welfare, or cut them off.

My overall feeling on government caring for the poor is very selfish - it's simply that I don't want millions of disgruntled, uneducated, violent americans (or immigrants for that matter) coming into my neighborhood and taking out their frustrations on me and my property. But obvioulsy the welfare system isnt' really helping that, and neither is the public education system. I'm all for reform of those systems, or an entirely new system, but I am really not well versed on the subject. And I do think that it's in everybody's interest to "do something" about it. I just don't know if anyone has advocated a better way of alleviating the problem.

 

[Flyer_PE]

^^ No matter what the government does, there will be poor people. There are several problematic assumptions regarding the poor in this country. The first is that the same people that were below the poverty line 10 or 20 years ago are the same people that are below the poverty line now. There are exceptions to this, but the vast majority of people currently living below the poverty line will not be there 10 years from now. As time goes by and additional skills are learned, your value to an employer will increase along with your income.

Additionally, the poverty line is based on income, not wealth. There are some rather wealthy senior citizens out there with high net worth but low income since they are just drawing social security and/or a pension. They far from poor, but they get included in the statistic based on their income.

 

[mudpuppy]

The thing is, repealing Bush's tax cuts would bring back the marriage penaly and decrease the child tax credit.

Woot! Quit screwing us single guys with no kids!

 

[DVINNY]

Take it from me,

you're one broken condom away from being one of us.



(pregnancy is going fine for my wife BTW)

 

[mudpuppy]

You are right--I need to be careful. . . don't need any little vacuums (rugrats?) running around.