Religion and Engineers

[RIP - VTEnviro]

Evolutionists Flock To Darwin-Shaped Wall Stain
DAYTON, TN—A steady stream of devoted evolutionists continued to gather in this small Tennessee town today to witness what many believe is an image of Charles Darwin—author of The Origin Of Species and founder of the modern evolutionary movement—made manifest on a concrete wall in downtown Dayton.

"I brought my baby to touch the wall, so that the power of Darwin can purify her genetic makeup of undesirable inherited traits," said Darlene Freiberg, one among a growing crowd assembled here to see the mysterious stain, which appeared last Monday on one side of the Rhea County Courthouse. The building was also the location of the famed "Scopes Monkey Trial" and is widely considered one of Darwinism's holiest sites. "Forgive me, O Charles, for ever doubting your Divine Evolution. After seeing this miracle of limestone pigmentation with my own eyes, my faith in empirical reasoning will never again be tested."

Added Freiberg, "Behold the power and glory of the scientific method!"

Since witnesses first reported the unexplained marking—which appears to resemble a 19th-century male figure with a high forehead and large beard—this normally quiet town has become a hotbed of biological zealotry. Thousands of pilgrims from as far away as Berkeley's paleoanthropology department have flocked to the site to lay wreaths of flowers, light devotional candles, read aloud from Darwin's works, and otherwise pay homage to the mysterious blue-green stain.

Capitalizing on the influx of empirical believers, street vendors have sprung up across Dayton, selling evolutionary relics and artwork to the thousands of pilgrims waiting to catch a glimpse of the image. Available for sale are everything from small wooden shards alleged to be fragments of the "One True Beagle"—the research vessel on which Darwin made his legendary voyage to the Galapagos Islands—to lecture notes purportedly touched by English evolutionist Alfred Russel Wallace.

"I have never felt closer to Darwin's ideas," said zoologist Fred Granger, who waited in line for 16 hours to view the stain. "May his name be praised and his theories on natural selection echo in all the halls of naturalistic observation forever."

Despite the enthusiasm the so-called "Darwin Smudge" has generated among the evolutionary faithful, disagreement remains as to its origin. Some believe the image is actually closer to the visage of Stephen Jay Gould, longtime columnist for Natural History magazine and originator of the theory of punctuated equilibrium, and is therefore proof of rapid cladogenesis. A smaller minority contend it is the face of Carl Sagan, and should be viewed as a warning to those nonbelievers who have not yet seen his hit PBS series Cosmos: A Personal Voyage.

Still others have attempted to discredit the miracle entirely, claiming that there are several alternate explanations for the appearance of the unexplained discoloration.

"It's a stain on a wall, and nothing more," said the Rev. Clement McCoy, a professor at Oral Roberts University and prominent opponent of evolutionary theory. "Anything else is the delusional fantasy of a fanatical evolutionist mindset that sees only what it wishes to see in the hopes of validating a baseless, illogical belief system. I only hope these heretics see the error of their ways before our Most Powerful God smites them all in His vengeance."

But those who have made the long journey to Dayton remain steadfast in their belief that natural selection—a process by which certain genes are favored over others less conducive to survival—is the one and only creator of life as we know it. This stain, they claim, is the proof they have been waiting for.

"To those who would deny that genetic drift is responsible for a branching evolutionary tree of increasing biodiversity amid changing ecosystems, we say, 'Look upon the face of Darwin!'" said Jeanette Cosgrove, who, along with members of her microbiology class, has maintained a candlelight vigil at the site for the past 72 hours.

"Over millions of successive generations, a specific subvariant of one species of slime mold adapted to this particular concrete wall, in order to one day form this stain, and thus make manifest this vision of Darwin's glorious countenance," Cosgrove said, overcome with emotion.

"It's a miracle," she added.

 

[EM_PS]

^ :lmao: - you do need to lay off TheOnion though. . ..

 

[chaosiscash]

Oddly enough, I did a cross-country flight into Dayton, TN yesterday (I'm building cross-country time in preparation for starting on my Instrument training).

I didn't notice any reporters from The Onion at the airport, however.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

^ :lmao: - you do need to lay off TheOnion though. . ..

its addictive!

 

[MA_PE]

I like onions

 

[sehad]

onions have layers

 

[chaosiscash]

just like ogres

 

[Guest]

I think it's a matter of location.

I thought that was for real estate! :lmao: :lmao:

I think religion, generally speaking, has taken a bad turn because there are the 5% of people out there who are perverting or otherwise souring the 'good' that comes from one's faith.

I have had many engaging discussions with a colleague whose beliefs are broadly different from my own. We have MUTUAL RESPECT for one another's point of view, so overall it has been a good dialogue. Moreover, I have learned a great deal from him and about faith in general from the discussions - all-in-all good stuff! lusone:

Now, when it has come to the $700B assistance package ... :15: :16:

:lmao:

JR

 

[Supe]

I think religion, generally speaking, has taken a bad turn because there are the 5% of people out there who are perverting or otherwise souring the 'good' that comes from one's faith.

I think you whacked the nail on the noggin there.

I have no problem with people who take pride in their faith. I personally believe however, that most organized religion is a giant crock pot because of the level of corruption and manipulation present in virtually all religions. This is only emphasized by the fact that a very small percentage of people arbitrarily choose their religion, but rather, are raised into it.

That being said, I don't believe in a "God" as most people interpret it. Rather, I consider myself to be a bit of an agnostic with some rudimentary alchemy tossed in!

 

[MA_PE]

consider myself to be a bit of an agnostic with some rudimentary alchemy alcohol tossed in!

no worries Supe. I've got you covered.

 

[Supe]

no worries Supe. I've got you covered.

:laugh: :beerchug:

I wish that were the case! Unfortunately blackouts don't count for spiritual visions!

 

[mudpuppy]

I am a Christian engineer. I know a lot of Christian engineers. I only know a few atheists/agnotstics. None of them are engineers.

I imagine there's more than a couple agnostic engineers here on EB.

However, my experience seems to be the oppostie of wilheldp's--this is completely qualitative, but it seems to me that engineers tend to be more likely to be religious.

 

[IlPadrino]

However, my experience seems to be the oppostie of wilheldp's--this is completely qualitative, but it seems to me that engineers tend to be more likely to be religious.

I wonder if any of us have enough "experience" to make a reasonable sampling... it would seem all our experience is anecdotal - that is, not worth much.

 

[benbo]

I wonder if any of us have enough "experience" to make a reasonable sampling... it would seem all our experience is anecdotal - that is, not worth much.

How can anyone not believe in a Supreme being when they have heard of GT_ME?

I'm sure it is anecdotal. However, I would be willing to bet that more than a few EBers were praying right before they opened their envelope with the test results. Probably even some of the atheists were praying to the great Stormwater Modeler in the Sky.

 

[IlPadrino]

However, I would be willing to bet that more than a few EBers were praying right before they opened their envelope with the test results. Probably even some of the atheists were praying to the great Stormwater Modeler in the Sky.

Uh... that's what you'd call "fail safe", right?

 

[IlPadrino]

I found this NYT article interesting: A Teacher on the Front Line as Faith and Science Clash. There's a related article 10 Questions, and Answers, About Evolution that is also interesting.

And take a look at

Whatever your opinion, it's an interesting discussion (at least to me) to try and reconcile how the matter should be addressed in the public schools.

 

[SSmith]

I don't consider myself a Christian. You can discuss the different philosophical nuances you want, but for me the crux of the matter is primarily an engineering one:

I don't believe a man can walk on water.

It's that simple. I don't understand how any well trained engineer can support that position either. On one hand--if I cant believe this, then the whole thing falls into the category of historical fiction. On the other hand--if man can walk on water, then the very basics of engineering fall apart. For me the choice was easy.

But I will never be able to understand those people who can't understand why I have trouble accepting the idea that man walked on water. They look at me like I'm the crazy one...

 

[DVINNY]

You 'believe' it the same way you believe that there is eternal life after death. (if you're a christian)

The whole idea is based on the fact that you must have a 'belief' in something that you can't see, hear, or touch.

 

[maryannette]

You 'believe' it the same way you believe that there is eternal life after death. (if you're a christian)
The whole idea is based on the fact that you must have a 'belief' in something that you can't see, hear, or touch.

Amen.

 

[benbo]

I found this NYT article interesting: A Teacher on the Front Line as Faith and Science Clash. There's a related article 10 Questions, and Answers, About Evolution that is also interesting.
And take a look at

Whatever your opinion, it's an interesting discussion (at least to me) to try and reconcile how the matter should be addressed in the public schools.

I am a religious believer but I believe science should be taught in science class. To me that means teaching evolution as a scientific theory and presenting the various questions about the theory in a scientific manner without mentioning the religious alternatives. I don't think religion should be mentioned except a possible disclaimer to " talk with your parents about any this."

But I do believe that all science should be taught with the express and wholly true idea that all throughout history the theories of completely self assured sceientists have constantly been upgraded and proven wrong. The history of the world is replete with scientists and engineers who were confident they were right based on "scientific principles" only to later be proven wrong by a new set of "scientific" principles. That is certainly fair game, but it should not be done from a religious perspective in my opinion. Save that for Sunday (or Friday or Saturday or whatever your day is).