Presidential Election

[engineergurl]

okay guys... lets not go too far and get back to the topic before one with power shuts it down...lol

 

[mudpuppy]

^^Um. I think DVINNY would be the one with the power to shut it down.

But there is no way I win a joke war with him. I don't know where he gets so much material.

 

[DVINNY]

I can assure you that I can't be offended. I could have fun with it, but I do know how people can get heated over such things.

With that said:

The Pope took a couple of days off to visit the mountains of Alaska for some sight-see! ing.

He was cruising along the campground in the Popemobile when there was a frantic commotion just at the edge of the woods. A helpless Democrat, wearing sandals, shorts, a "Save the Whales/Bush Lied" T-shirt and a tree-hugger hat, was screaming while struggling frantically, thrashing around trying to free himself from the grasp of a 10-foot grizzly.

As the Pope watched horrified, a group of Republican loggers came racing up.

One quickly fired a .44 magnum into the bear's chest. The other two reached up and pulled the bleeding semiconscious Democrat from the bear's grasp. Then using long clubs, the three loggers finished off the bear and two of them threw it onto the bed of their truck while the other tenderly placed the injured Democrat in the back seat.

As they prepared to leave, the Pope summoned them. "I give you my blessing for your brave actions!" he told them. "I heard there was a bitter hatred between Republican loggers and Democratic environmental activists but now I've seen with my own eyes that this is not true."

As the Pope drove off, one of the loggers asked his buddies "Who was that guy?" "It was the Pope.", another replied, "He's in direct contact with God and has access to all God's wisdom."

"Well," the logger said, "he may have access to all God's wisdom but he sure doesn't know squat about bear hunting! By the way, is the bait holding up, or do we need to go back to town and snatch us another one?"

 

[G-Loose]

I can assure you that I can't be offended. I could have fun with it, but I do now how people can get heated over such things.
With that said:

The Pope took a couple of days off to visit the mountains of Alaska for some sight-see! ing.

He was cruising along the campground in the Popemobile when there was a frantic commotion just at the edge of the woods. A helpless Democrat, wearing sandals, shorts, a "Save the Whales/Bush Lied" T-shirt and a tree-hugger hat, was screaming while struggling frantically, thrashing around trying to free himself from the grasp of a 10-foot grizzly.

As the Pope watched horrified, a group of Republican loggers came racing up.

One quickly fired a .44 magnum into the bear’s chest. The other two reached up and pulled the bleeding semiconscious Democrat from the bear’s grasp. Then using long clubs, the three loggers finished off the bear and two of them threw it onto the bed of their truck while the other tenderly placed the injured Democrat in the back seat.

As they prepared to leave, the Pope summoned them. "I give you my blessing for your brave actions!" he told them. "I heard there was a bitter hatred between Republican loggers and Democratic environmental activists but now I’ve seen with my own eyes that this is not true."

As the Pope drove off, one of the loggers asked his buddies "Who was that guy?" "It was the Pope.", another replied, "He’s in direct contact with God and has access to all God’s wisdom."

"Well," the logger said, "he may have access to all God’s wisdom but he sure doesn’t know squat about bear hunting! By the way, is the bait holding up, or do we need to go back to town and snatch us another one?"

Awesome!

 

[Dleg]

^I usually avoid political discussions, plus I think of myself as an independent thinker, and therefore neither a "Democrat" or a "Republican". But it always amazes me how the Republican party has been able to swindle the blue collar workers of America into believing that they should also be "Republicans" because "Republicans" stand for toughness, masculinity, huntin', fishin', God, family, and all this other ******** which has absolutely nothing to do with what the "Republicans" actually do up in Washington, once elected.

There was a time, and you all know this, that the Democratic party attracted all the blue collar workers, because the Democratic party stood for labor unions, etc. - all the things that directly aimed at the blue collar demographic. (for right or wrong - don't accuse me of being a union sympatizer because I am not). But now it seems that some smart, yet cynical and calculating folks somewhere along the line, figured out that all they had to say was this:



"Democrats are *******"

... and the blue collar workers would march in droves over to the Republican Party. "Shucks, I don't nobody to think that I might be a ******!" And the Republican Party, as we all also know, is not at all in favor of labor unions, and is instead all about what's best for the large corporations and "the economy" as a whole. And once again, I agree with the basic economics of that - workers usually benefit when their coprorations do well. But we all also know that many politicians stand aside and watch while big business goes to the extremes, and replaces all those good old boy blue collar voters with illegal immigrants, and then, ultimately, sends all those blue collar jobs overseas.

Simply amazing. People are obviously pretty stupid and gullible, when you get right down to it. Personally, I'd rather see this democracy work the way it's supposed to, and have the masses voting on the issues that the politicians actually control, and not all this masculinity ridicule crap.

 

[Dleg]

^Oops. To be fair, I should add that I think the Democratic party has also blown it by alienating those folks with too much emphasis on fuzzy social issues that they equally have no business arguing about int Washington.

('cause I don't want to sound like a whining, faggoty Democrat)

 

[mudpuppy]

Simply amazing. People are obviously pretty stupid and gullible, when you get right down to it. Personally, I'd rather see this democracy work the way it's supposed to, and have the masses voting on the issues that the politicians actually control, and not all this masculinity ridicule crap.

My feelings exactly, Dleg.

You might find the opinions of Susan Jacoby interesting. Here is an excerpt from her article in the Washington Post this past winter:

[SIZE=14pt]The Dumbing Of America[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Call Me a Snob, but Really, We're a Nation of Dunces[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] By Susan Jacoby Sunday, February 17, 2008; Page B01 [/SIZE]

"The mind of this country, taught to aim at low objects, eats upon itself." Ralph Waldo Emerson offered that observation in 1837, but his words echo with painful prescience in today's very different United States. Americans are in serious intellectual trouble -- in danger of losing our hard-won cultural capital to a virulent mixture of anti-intellectualism, anti-rationalism and low expectations.

This is the last subject that any candidate would dare raise on the long and winding road to the White House. It is almost impossible to talk about the manner in which public ignorance contributes to grave national problems without being labeled an "elitist," one of the most powerful pejoratives that can be applied to anyone aspiring to high office. Instead, our politicians repeatedly assure Americans that they are just "folks," a patronizing term that you will search for in vain in important presidential speeches before 1980. (Just imagine: "We here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain . . . and that government of the folks, by the folks, for the folks, shall not perish from the earth.") Such exaltations of ordinariness are among the distinguishing traits of anti-intellectualism in any era.

The article in its whole is a very interesting read.

 

[DVINNY]

So ya figured us out eh?

Don't tell the others.

 

[mudpuppy]

I don't think we or she are trying to insult any individual's intelligence, or even the nation's as a whole. BUT, I think we are being lead down a path where every issue can be summarized by some sort of quick, emotional sound bite, and we are encouraged not to put any thought into anything.

Maybe I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it seems like "they" are trying to keep us fat, dumb and happy so we don't rock the boat and ruin "their" party.

 

[DVINNY]

I don't think its a conspiracy. I think its happening, but I'm not convinced there is a "conspiracy" to keep us that way, its just working out in "their" favor that its happening.

I am a republican because that party is closest to my values, but I really wish that our country could have a true 3 party system. Then if all 3 parties only had 33% of the votes, then to have laws and changes passed, they would have to be genuine to have the other 2 parties 'step into the aisle' to vote for it.

The way it is now a majority can be won by a party, and I don't think that's very healthy.

 

[Flyer_PE]

^^ I'm too lazy to look up the exact context, but the framers (Jefferson in particular I think) didn't like the idea of political parties. To be called a "party man" was an insult.

The two worst things we have done is instituted direct election of senators and the president. The senators used to be beholden to the state legislators. An individual voting district in this country has less representation in congress than most foreign countries.

 

[Guest]

It is interesting to see the firestorm unleashed by Jon Voight's Op-Ed piece entitled, Obama sowing socialist seeds in young people printed in the Washington Times

JR

 

[snickerd3]

ineteresting comic strip http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19798680/?cat=td

I don't usually read his work, but if either candidate can take the process back to basics, it would be better for all.

 

[G-Loose]

It is interesting to see the firestorm unleashed by Jon Voight's Op-Ed piece entitled, Obama sowing socialist seeds in young people printed in the Washington Times
JR

With all the problems we are having in America and the world today, if Adolf Hitler had been born 50 years later he could get at least half of America to buy into his beliefs. Ever wonder how an anti-social human being such as Hitler became so powerful he nearly conquered all of Europe? If any of you know anything about how he got into power, it had nothing to do with his white supremacist views. He promised "hope and change" for the people who had no jobs and were starving to death and didn't feel like their government was doing anything to help (any of this sound familiar). Along comes Hitler to the rescue, all you had to do was accept or at least overlook his views of the Jews. Once the country began to prosper and most of the people, as long as you weren't jewish, were happy everyone felt loyalty and obligation to Hitler, their savior. Hitler is referred to by most theologians as anti-Christ, not "The Antichrist" mind you but anti-Christ none-the-less.

So, my point is, many people in this country today have been primed by the liberal/socialist media to "drink the koolaid".

 

[benbo]

With all the problems we are having in America and the world today, if Adolf Hitler had been born 50 years later he could get at least half of America to buy into his beliefs. Ever wonder how an anti-social human being such as Hitler became so powerful he nearly conquered all of Europe? If any of you know anything about how he got into power, it had nothing to do with his white supremacist views. He promised "hope and change" for the people who had no jobs and were starving to death and didn't feel like their government was doing anything to help (any of this sound familiar). Along comes Hitler to the rescue, all you had to do was accept or at least overlook his views of the Jews. Once the country began to prosper and most of the people, as long as you weren't jewish, were happy everyone felt loyalty and obligation to Hitler, their savior. Hitler is referred to by most theologians as anti-Christ, not "The Antichrist" mind you but anti-Christ none-the-less.
So, my point is, many people in this country today have been primed by the liberal/socialist media to "drink the koolaid".

I'm conservative, I prefer McCain, but come on. This is hyperbole. Every new candidate preaches change. When you drop the "Hitler" you reduce the argument. Remember Hitler was also ultra-nationalist (after Versailles). People might try to make that stretch to criticize McCain, which would be an equal stretch. The differences between Obama and McCain are significant, and to the extent I can tell he is more like Carter than Clinton, but really this is a stretch to me. If a real Hitler came to power I'd leave, or take up arms. I'll likely stay if Obama get's elected.

 

[GCracker]

^I usually avoid political discussions,

There was a time, and you all know this, that the Democratic party attracted all the blue collar workers, because the Democratic party stood for labor unions, etc. - all the things that directly aimed at the blue collar demographic. (for right or wrong - don't accuse me of being a union sympatizer because I am not). But now it seems that some smart, yet cynical and calculating folks somewhere along the line, figured out that all they had to say was this:



"Democrats are *******"

I usually stay away as well, but I disagree that all red blooded americans jumped off the train because of sexuality. ( I know you were making a broad statement)

I agree on the above in reference to labor unions back in the day. But, what do the unions do now besides completely screw people out of their money and jobs? In the early days unions were needed to protect and provide for the american worker. Now, the unions drive up wages so high that american companies can't compete and people loose their jobs. Two industries that come to mind are automotive and steel. I went to high school with a guy that worked for the Atlanta GM plant during the summers making $18 per hour to start. This is a high school kid working between semesters pushing a broom!!!!

Add to that the dems and libs think that it's ok to give 40% of that money to the "family" that has 10 kids and can't afford to or won't work to support them. Also throw in that most of them (the one's that you see on TV) support gun control, are anti hunting, fishing, save the tree, etc and it's easy to see why most blue collar workers stopped supporting the democratic party.

In response to G-Loose, the Jewish people were seen as being reason for the people starving to death and not having jobs. Hitler used this to get the support of those people. (not saying their actions were justified)

In some ways the Dem and Rep parties do the same thing. The rich man is keeping you down let's tax him to death!!! Or, the poor man is taking all your money!! Put me in office and I'll stop it!

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I'm not being mean G-Loose, but you probably ought to read something about Hitler. His 'Hope and Change' was to get rid of all the Jews. Hitler was pure evil that probably could not have risen to power outside of that place and time.

I don't think GWB, Obama, or McCain come anywhere close to Hitlerian proportion.

 

[G-Loose]

In response to G-Loose, the Jewish people were seen as being reason for the people starving to death and not having jobs. Hitler used this to get the support of those people. (not saying their actions were justified) In some ways the Dem and Rep parties do the same thing. The rich man is keeping you down let's tax him to death!!! Or, the poor man is taking all your money!! Put me in office and I'll stop it!

Your statements are accurate about Hitler gaining support, and I agree that both parties use the same kind of propaganda. People like to have someone to blame for their problems, so Hitler gave them the Jews. The fact that the country prospered only served to cement the idea in the minds of the people that the Jews were to blame. While socialist ideas seem good to begin with, once they take hold people no longer have a say-so in their own lives. People today have not seen the government oppression that was the very reason for the formation of this great country. Our schools are teaching liberally biased history and therefore our kids cannot learn the valuable lessons that the original American revolutionaries learned by giving their lives for the freedoms we have today. Today, it's all about making sure certain people are not allowed to voice certain views and ensuring that "I" get what "I" deserve. In my opinion if you don't work for it, then you do not deserve anything but a swift kick in the arse. The fact that by voting a certain way will ensure that "I" don't have to work for what "I" have is just as flawed as congress voting for their own raises.

The good thing is that when the next revolution occurs, I will be on the gun toting, hunting, fishing, fight if neccessary, and work for what you have side and not the gun control, tree hugging, protect the animals, live off the government teet side. If we were playing one of those role play trading card games I see those geeks playing sometimes, "my M16 defeats your peace shield" everytime, lol.

 

[G-Loose]

I'm not being mean G-Loose, but you probably ought to read something about Hitler. His 'Hope and Change' was to get rid of all the Jews. Hitler was pure evil that probably could not have risen to power outside of that place and time.
I don't think GWB, Obama, or McCain come anywhere close to Hitlerian proportion.

I totally agree with your statement of Hitler's being pure evil. Do you think all of his followers were pure evil as well. I can tell you, NO. They were families, mothers, fathers, and children. They were convinced to believe in something through Hitler's powers of persuasion and their longing for a better life. I'm not saying by any means that Obama or McCain is evil like Hitler. What I am saying is simply that today people are willing to accept a candidate even if he had ties to our most hated enemies, the radical muslims (I"m not saying Obama does, I'm simply stating even if he did) in return for the promise of a better life for themselves and their families. That is what I mean when I say Hitler could gain power in this country today. For all you Bible readers... Did the serpant tell Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit and they would die? No, he made them believe that God did not want them to eat the fruit because then they would be gods themselves. This played on the inate human desire to make a better life for themselves. This is basically what Hitler did. The power of persuasion is a very powerful gift that put into the wrong hands can yield great tragedy. Jim Jones and David Koresh (sp) are prime examples of how the powers of persuasion can be used to cause seemingly good people to believe the most outlandish things even to the point of giving ones own life for it.

 

[TouchDown]

What I am saying is simply that today people are willing to accept a candidate even if he had ties to our most hated enemies, the radical muslims (I"m not saying Obama does, I'm simply stating even if he did) in return for the promise of a better life for themselves and their families.

Yeah, I don't really agree with this statement. I do agree that a good portion of the voting public could be considered gullible or ambivalent or uninformed, but saying they would support a candidate who has ties to radical muslims in this day and age if he/she could give them a better life? Banking on a thought that in this day and age that Hitler could do well politically in this country just because people would be stupid enough / gullible / greedy that they would consider mass execution if it helped them in some way? I find that hard to fathom. I'd like to think that America is stronger than that.