Just got an NCEES email saying October PE exams are canceled.

[Dude99]

Are results available quicker with the CBT format?

 

[Dothracki PE]

Are results available quicker with the CBT format?

Yes, the results are usually sent within 7-10 business days.

 

[Novanian]

Yeah not sure if I will sign up to take it December right away.

While knowledge of the concepts is the same, in a way, its a completely different exam. I will need to practice using the PDF document and that alone to solve practice problems now and pretend as if nothing else exists. Formulas that I may have written down because they are in a more "specialized / modified / derived" state are no longer a page tab away as well as conceptual data that has been increasing in depth and breadth from what I gather by comments here.

It will be even more important to read as much about the conceptual topics as before since now there are "Select ALL that Apply" which can lead to trickier outcomes.

Yes, I understand that if you truly know the content through and through, your references shouldn't have to carry you, but its a completely different game with a PDF document and not your own notes.. Basically memorization and learning is even more critical now because you can't just skim through your battery section and say, "Oh I kinda understand what this page says but I at least know where to find it if this question comes up". Now you must KNOW it.

I find it difficult to believe they are just going to leave the non-Code question's conceptual answers sitting in a PDF form when it comes to say, Machine Theory or System Stability but who knows.

I am not against an computerized exam, after all I took the FE on the computer and I had no issues with it given that it was general electrical engineering concepts that I spent years learning in college and practicing.

It is what it is though, if this is the only avenue to get it, then its all we got.

 

[Rajan]

How do I send email to NCEES?  Is there an email address? Do I need to login?

[SIZE=12pt]I got the one-line response. “CBT is open with appointments available starting December 1st.  You will not be allowed to bring in any type of reference material into a CBT exam”.[/SIZE]

 

[speakeelsy PE]

wonder if we should contact our state boards to put more pressure on NCEES?

 

[BirdGrave]

As much as I expected this outcome it still stinks for everyone who has been practicing to take the test in the traditional method.  I am sorry, folks.  Know that no time or money that you've spent preparing for the exam is a waste, as even if you can't take your resources into the test with you they still have aided in your familiarity with the material.  And in a certain respect I am envious of CBT test takers, as you can be reasonably confident that the answers to questions are found in the materials provided and can search through them with a precisely formatted Ctrl F.  I know that of the over 10 books I took into my pencil & paper exam I maybe had the time to crack open and look through 3, and that includes my note binder.

 

[Dothracki PE]

As much as I expected this outcome it still stinks for everyone who has been practicing to take the test in the traditional method.  I am sorry, folks.  Know that no time or money that you've spent preparing for the exam is a waste, as even if you can't take your resources into the test with you they still have aided in your familiarity with the material.  And in a certain respect I am envious of CBT test takers, as you can be reasonably confident that the answers to questions are found in the materials provided and can search through them with a precisely formatted Ctrl F.  I know that of the over 10 books I took into my pencil & paper exam I maybe had the time to crack open and look through 3, and that includes my note binder.

Good point, always try to look at the positives. This should give us more time to really focus on the problem and will cut down on time spent flipping through books. I noticed it did take a while in my practice exams just to figure out which reference was best for the question, and to find the page about that particular topic.

 

[BirdGrave]

Good point, always try to look at the positives. This should give us more time to really focus on the problem and will cut down on time spent flipping through books. I noticed it did take a while in my practice exams just to figure out which reference was best for the question, and to find the page about that particular topic.

And all of that page flipping is now gone.  That simply means you have that much more time to actually solve the problems, assuming the exam is still 8 hours in length.

Another positive is that you functionally can take (or retake) the test whenever you want now since it's administered year-round.  No more having to wait until the next April or October.  You can just take the time you feel you need to prepare. 

Add to that the fact that it's probably going to be administered in most locations where you can also take the CBT FE.  I had to drive for 3 hours to my nearest testing location for the PE, vs. 20 minutes to the location for the CBT FE.  It adds a layer of convenience to the experience that means you can cut out a lot of worrying about the logistics and just focus on the test itself.    

 

[Rajan]

wonder if we should contact our state boards to put more pressure on NCEES?

I am ready for that.

 

[DilutedAr18_PE]

And all of that page flipping is now gone.  That simply means you have that much more time to actually solve the problems, assuming the exam is still 8 hours in length.

Another positive is that you functionally can take (or retake) the test whenever you want now since it's administered year-round.  No more having to wait until the next April or October.  You can just take the time you feel you need to prepare. 

Add to that the fact that it's probably going to be administered in most locations where you can also take the CBT FE.  I had to drive for 3 hours to my nearest testing location for the PE, vs. 20 minutes to the location for the CBT FE.  It adds a layer of convenience to the experience that means you can cut out a lot of worrying about the logistics and just focus on the test itself.    

Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”?

• The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?
  
• There are multiple sections where the formulas listed do not have the variables defined. We should not have memorize variables for random formulas that we may or may not need for the test problems.
  

If you try to solve the practice exam with only the reference, there is simply not enough information to solve every question. Pardon me if I don’t simply believe that they have provided all the informative we need in this reference manual.

 

[BirdGrave]

Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”?

• The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?
  
• There are multiple sections where the formulas listed do not have the variables defined. We should not have memorize variables for random formulas that we may or may not need for the test problems.
  

If you try to solve the practice exam with only the reference, there is simply not enough information to solve every question. Pardon me if I don’t simply believe that they have provided all the informative we need in this reference manual.

Yes, I have.  No one knows if that is the final version that is going to pop up on your monitor in a testing center 5ish months from now.  Like all the other reference documents, it's going to be consistently evolving and amended.  And questions on the exams are thrown out if the review committee determines there was insufficient information to reasonably come to a correct answer.  

 

[Orchid PE]

NCEES should've released a new sample exam that contains the new alternative problem types at the same time they released the reference. 

 

[Tim - formerly @ NCEES]

NCEES should've released a new sample exam that contains the new alternative problem types at the same time they released the reference. 

A new sample book has been published. https://account.ncees.org/exam-prep/388

The only difference between it and the previous sample book is that four alternative item types have been added - and they’re all available in the free preview.

 

[Orchid PE]

A new sample book has been published. https://account.ncees.org/exam-prep/388

The only difference between it and the previous sample book is that four alternative item types have been added - and they’re all available in the free preview.

Awesome.

 

[Orchid PE]

@Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:

Question:



Answer given in the book:



Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:



I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have no displacement. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and are in phase." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 0°" It would also be true if it said "The three positive-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."

However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.

 

[Orchid PE]

Have you actually looked at the so call “reference handbook”?

• The exam specifications list 11-17 questions for protection. There are no sections that cover protection. How do you rectify that?
  
• There are multiple sections where the formulas listed do not have the variables defined. We should not have memorize variables for random formulas that we may or may not need for the test problems.
  

If you try to solve the practice exam with only the reference, there is simply not enough information to solve every question. Pardon me if I don’t simply believe that they have provided all the informative we need in this reference manual.

Not all questions they ask on the exam should be able to be answered using the reference book or code books. Some of it will need to just come from knowledge gained through experience.

But I do agree with you, there should be at least one section dedicated to protection information. Even if it's just general info on protection devices. 

 

[Rajan]

WOW! CBT is expensive $375 + tax.

 

[akyip]

@Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:

Question:

View attachment 18349

Answer given in the book:

View attachment 18350

Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:

View attachment 18351

I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have no displacement. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and are in phase." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 0°" It would also be true if it said "The three positive-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."

However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.

I agree that Option A is wrong. As I have always known it, the zero-sequence components all have the same magnitude and same angle. The zero-sequence components do not have any displacements between each other.

 

[Zach Stone P.E.]

@Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:

Question:

View attachment 18349

Answer given in the book:

View attachment 18350

Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:

View attachment 18351

I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have no displacement. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and are in phase." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 0°" It would also be true if it said "The three positive-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."

However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.

Good catch.

 

[speakeelsy PE]

WOW! CBT is expensive $375 + tax.

yeah pencil and paper was only $350... though we're supposed to get a $25 refund if we sign up before January...not sure that's a great consolation prize for getting ****** around for a year, but whatever!

@Tim @ NCEES I believe there is a typo in the sample. Referring to question 12:

Question:

View attachment 18349

Answer given in the book:

View attachment 18350

Symmetrical Component section from the reference handbook:

View attachment 18351

I believe the answer should be (B, D), excluding (A). Option A states "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°." The solution states "Options (A) and (B) are correct, by definition from the transformation matrices shown in the [reference handbook]." However, if we look at the section in the reference handbook, we can clearly see that the zero-sequence current phasors (even though only voltage phasors are specified) have no displacement. Option A would only be true if it said "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and are in phase." Or "The three zero-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 0°" It would also be true if it said "The three positive-sequence current phasors are equal in magnitude and displaced by 120°."

However, I have been wrong before. If anyone notices that I missed something please let me know.

A is definitely incorrect. zero sequence currents and voltages are equal in magnitude and angles. If C is incorrect, then A is incorrect. it shouldn't matter if they are currents or voltages.

Frustrating!!!