April 2021 Post Exam Wait Period - Welcome to the Suck

[5 to 9]

Las Vegas odds for results release day:

• Monday 24th May: +2000
• Tuesday 25th May: +1000
• Wednesday 26th May: +1200
• Thursday 27th May: +400
• Friday 28th May: +900

Over/Under: 7 days

 

[RBHeadge PE]

So this is just my own personal conspiracy theory, but I wouldn't be surprised if the tests were harder overall for the past year to encourage repeat testers... i mean NCEES must have taken a big hit by cancelling the exam last April

No.

Yes I am aware the cut score varies each exam and historically was more around 56ish.

This is true for the deep past. I don't think one can make that statement for the exams within the last 10 years.

This is all my theory based on researching, so I should have clarified my questions: whats the highest failing score you have heard of on the previous 2 exam sessions (Oct 2020 and Jan 2021)

https://www.mylespaul.com/attachments/1aaaah-geez-not-this-****-again-jpg.532464/

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be written that the cut score varies between disciplines and administrations, but THE CUT SCORES VARIES BETWEEN DISCIPLINES AND ADMINISTRATIONS. Don't bother trying to figure out a pattern because there isn't one. And even if you somehow did know the cut score for whatever exam you took then you still don't know you're own score. Either way you're still drowning in uncertainty.

You're kidding yourself if you think there is any correlation between the most recent offering and the current offering.

But you can go ahead and look for yourself here:
https://engineerboards.com/threads/october-2020-results.36351/Not many people reported fail scores for that administration, so good luck trying to draw any conclusions from that. IIRC No one posted fail scores in a thread for January.

Do you know which session they sat for? (Oct 2020, etc?)

Off the top of my head, I think it was Oct 2013, Oct 2014, and sometime about three years ago. 2/3 times were civil exams.

Las Vegas odds for results release day:

• Monday 24th May: +2000
• Tuesday 25th May: +1000
• Wednesday 26th May: +1200
• Thursday 27th May: +400
• Friday 28th May: +900

Over/Under: 7 days

I'd put the o/u at May 26 23:59.59. But there's a reason why I'm not a bookie.

 

[civilrobot PE etc etc]

Also, be sure to check your spam/junk mail. Gmail was filtering some of my NCEES emails to junk and I had to create a filter to send to my inbox. Anyone know if there's a facebook group similar to this board for posting PE results?

Really good advice. I think the "change in exam location" email was chillin in my junk mail. I randomly caught it one day.

 

[civilrobot PE etc etc]

I really believe that trying to guess the cut score is such a waste of time and energy. If you think about it, even looking at how many you got wrong doesn't give you any indication of how many you need to get right next time. The formula inputs change each year. So what's the point?

When I failed, I focused more on the subjects that I did really poorly in. I hope I did better in those subjects. I thought I could write off Structural Mechanics...just not even attempt to relearn that stuff during my first attempt. This time, I put a lot of work into Structural Mechanics which was a pretty heavy lift given the interesting teaching style of the EET instructor. I had to work a lot of the examples on my own in order to understand the topics inside and out.

That's just an example...but if I fail again, I will review the subjects I know I worked super hard in and see if I made any improvements. Otherwise, all you can do is practice as many problems as possible and then do it again....and again.

 

[5 to 9]

I'd put the o/u at May 26 23:59.59. But there's a reason why I'm not a bookie.

I suppose if we were to base the o/u on Monday then there we be no under, just an over haha

 

[Kashybobashy]

No.


This is true for the deep past. I don't think one can make that statement for the exams within the last 10 years.



https://www.mylespaul.com/attachments/1aaaah-geez-not-this-****-again-jpg.532464/

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be written that the cut score varies between disciplines and administrations, but THE CUT SCORES VARIES BETWEEN DISCIPLINES AND ADMINISTRATIONS. Don't bother trying to figure out a pattern because there isn't one. And even if you somehow did know the cut score for whatever exam you took then you still don't know you're own score. Either way you're still drowning in uncertainty.

You're kidding yourself if you think there is any correlation between the most recent offering and the current offering.

But you can go ahead and look for yourself here:
https://engineerboards.com/threads/october-2020-results.36351/Not many people reported fail scores for that administration, so good luck trying to draw any conclusions from that. IIRC No one posted fail scores in a thread for January.


Off the top of my head, I think it was Oct 2013, Oct 2014, and sometime about three years ago. 2/3 times were civil exams.


I'd put the o/u at May 26 23:59.59. But there's a reason why I'm not a bookie.

So the cut score for a Civil Transportation will be different than a Civil Construction or Civil Geotechnical?

 

[civilrobot PE etc etc]

The red/green color is triggering for me, so I've logged in and now I'm keeping the Exams page up instead...rather see it in black and white.

 

[5 to 9]

I really believe that trying to guess the cut score is such a waste of time and energy. If you think about it, even looking at how many you got wrong doesn't give you any indication of how many you need to get right next time. The formula inputs change each year. So what's the point?

When I failed, I focused more on the subjects that I did really poorly in. I hope I did better in those subjects. I thought I could write off Structural Mechanics...just not even attempt to relearn that stuff during my first attempt. This time, I put a lot of work into Structural Mechanics which was a pretty heavy lift given the interesting teaching style of the EET instructor. I had to work a lot of the examples on my own in order to understand the topics inside and out.

That's just an example...but if I fail again, I will review the subjects I know I worked super hard in and see if I made any improvements. Otherwise, all you can do is practice as many problems as possible and then do it again....and again.

Same here. I struggled with the depth portion in October so I almost exclusively studied depth material for Civil Structural this go around. Whether I passed (maybe) or failed (likely) is a different matter entirely, but I focused what I was weak on with the EET class.

IMO, although the video EET classes were a complete waste of time (unless you have insomnia and struggle to fall asleep), their binder was SUPER useful and a key study resource.

 

[al1bye911]

So the cut score for a Civil Transportation will be different than a Civil Construction or Civil Geotechnical?

Yes. Each module has a different cut off, based on the difficulty of the exam questions taken from the pool.

 

[Kashybobashy]

Yes. Each module has a different cut off, based on the difficulty of the exam questions taken from the pool.

Okay I didnt know that I figured Civil with all PM disciplines would be the same but it makes sense to break it down by PM discipline. Thanks!

 

[5 to 9]

So the cut score for a Civil Transportation will be different than a Civil Construction or Civil Geotechnical?

Yes, it's different each time and for each discipline.

I know you're new here, but we receive the cut score question on these forums all the time. Same thing on Reddit. It's understandable that you would be curious about trying to calculate a passing score, but we've all been through this song and dance so many times that it gets tiring receiving the same question every day.

Don't stress so much. If you tried your best, that's all you can say. I hope you passed and never have to take this exam again!

 

[civilrobot PE etc etc]

Same here. I struggled with the depth portion in October so I almost exclusively studied depth material for Civil Structural this go around. Whether I passed (maybe) or failed (likely) is a different matter entirely, but I focused what I was weak on with the EET class.

The video EET classes were a complete waste of time (unless you have insomnia and struggle to fall asleep), but their binder was SUPER useful and a key study resource.

During my first attempt, I didn't understand why people said that but now I do. I don't think the videos are a waste of time if you're far removed from the topics. The videos reacqainted me with the basics, the formulas, and how to think about a topic. Example: I used to work on construction sites where we poured auger cast piles all the time. But I never really thought about what the engineers did to determine how far down the foundation should go, or determining the compressive strength of the soil for a crane's outriggers. When I was in the field, I just made sure everybody showed up on time, and that they were following the specs. But I remember seeing it. The explanation and stories in the videos brought those things out of my peripheral, I guess.

But the second time? I barely watched the videos. I watched portions that went over an example that I didn't understand or something like that. Then I jotted down the "missing parts" in my notes or rewrote the example in a way that made more sense and then turned off the video. It was more useful to me to rework the problems in the binder on my own.

 

[5 to 9]

During my first attempt, I didn't understand why people said that but now I do. I don't think the videos are a waste of time if you're far removed from the topics. The videos reacqainted me with the basics, the formulas, and how to think about a topic. Example: I used to work on construction sites where we poured auger cast piles all the time. But I never really thought about what the engineers did to determine how far down the foundation should go, or determining the compressive strength of the soil for a crane's outriggers. When I was in the field, I just made sure everybody showed up on time, and that they were following the specs. But I remember seeing it. The explanation and stories in the videos brought those things out of my peripheral, I guess.

But the second time? I barely watched the videos. I watched portions that went over an example that I didn't understand or something like that. Then I jotted down the "missing parts" in my notes or rewrote the example in a way that made more sense and then turned off the video. It was more useful to me to rework the problems in the binder on my own.

The videos do have their purpose, and it does depend on your discipline and instructor, but from my own experience, the instructor I had was pretty bad at teaching the material and he was painfully droll and slow. I had to download the videos and play them at 2x speed in order for the instructor to talk at a normal pace.

 

[civilrobot PE etc etc]

Well, on the plus side, if we don't receive results by 12 noon EST then the chances of receiving them that same day are greatly reduced.

 

[civilrobot PE etc etc]

"So, just try to stay busy until 12:00 PM EST everyday this week and you'll be fine!", she told herself yet doubt clouded her mind.

 

[AZ_ladybrain]

"So, just try to stay busy until 12:00 PM EST everyday this week and you'll be fine!", she told herself yet doubt clouded her mind.

Easier said than done

 

[civilrobot PE etc etc]

For those of you reading this, I, for one, do not practice what I post. lol I'm sitting here refreshing the NCEES page.

 

[SoVA Eng]

For those of you reading this, I, for one, do not practice what I post. lol I'm sitting here refreshing the NCEES page.

As much as I agree with you and know that now it's 2:00 pm EST and they probably won't come out today, I am still refreshing .....and I have way too much work this week to be refreshing.

 

[RBHeadge PE]

Just some general advice for the thread that's not directed at anyone in particular.

• Just leave the cut score alone. The more you think about it the more it makes things worse. There's too much uncertainty about it, both in the near and long term to draw any conclusions.
• Talking about the cut score on here only leads to group think and collective panic. Can we please not make things worse.
• From personal experience, I strongly recommend not counting on a low cut score as a hope for passing. I get the psychological exercise of trying to remain optimistic, but if you're banking on a cut score <=50 then you are probably not going to be receiving good news soon.
• 
  
• Your perspective on the exam and the whole process will change a few years after you pass.
  • Right now you are only think about passing. Full Stop.
  • There is a larger picture of why things exist the systems that have been set up to support the profession.
• 
  
• There has always been a lot of chatter about how the exam doesn't look like the practice problems, or the problems in the study guides, or how they are coming out of "left field". That's by design!
  • The examine writers look at the existing body of retired problems, study guide and practice problems, and try not to duplicate them*. There are too many liabilities associated with this exam and what passing the exam essentially licenses the examinee to do. And the liability traces from the engineer to the State board and to the examination. The exam is a metric for demonstrating minimum competency to practice. It doesn't serve the profession well if the test can be taken my any literate person with an old practice-exam.
    • *I can't find the references for this statement but I've seen it an a few official places of the years.
• NCEES and the State Boards aren't in this for the money. They each have their own "customers" they need to satisfy but their "bottom line" really isn't one of them.
  • State Boards work for the public. The licenses they provide are intended to safeguard the public from malpractice and reduce or eliminate accidents. Some boards also exist to preserve the integrity of the profession, but that overlaps with the goal of preventing harm from coming to people and the environment and while ensuring that conduct is done ethically and professionally.
  • The State Boards are NCEES's only customer. I know it feels strange to read that since you just paid *them* to take *their* test, but that's the reality of the situation. NCEES makes the exam that proves to the Boards that the candidate is minimally competent to practice. As such their exams needs to have the right QA, integrity, documentation, traceability, methodology, and consistency to satisfy the State Boards or State legislatures that they are continuing to do the task properly. If they mess up, or even worse intentionally commit malpractice to make a quick buck, then it throws all of their exams into question. And that causes problem for their customers- the State Boards- who have to figure out what is appropriate to fulfill their mission if the last [X] years of licensees are now in question.

 

[RBHeadge PE]

So the cut score for a Civil Transportation will be different than a Civil Construction or Civil Geotechnical?

Probably yes. The depth sections will have different thresholds for passing because they are made up of different component problems with different individual contributions to the cut score. It would just be a coincidence if they had the same cut score in a given offering.