A simple way to improve education

[klk]

^Disagree. There has to be some minimum requirements that apply to everyone, or else a High School Diploma loses its meaning. Teachers should follow a curriculum, and that curriculum should be approved by an accrediting body, just like our precious engineering degrees.
Frankly, a high school degree is adequate for most people in life. i personally do not think we should "expect" everyone to go on to college, unless they are going for a more advanced job. I look back at my HS education and I am impressed - I learned a lot of stuff that has stuck with me. Then again, I was one of the few who did their homework and reading.

While I agree that not everyone needs to go to college, I don't think you can expect all students to succeed in a "one-size-fits-all" type of high school education. College bound students need a college-prep circulum, and those not bound for college need vocational curiculum. I think, at the 8th grade level, all students should take a test. In order to go on to a college-prep high school they would have to get certain scores on the tests. Those that don't measure up go into a vocational high school. Excellent vocational high schools would do such a better job for these kids than the current high school system that try to make every student fit into the same college-prep mold. We keep raising the standards for what students need to be able to do to graduate from high school, and then we act astonished when they drop out of high school in droves. Kids should have to earn the right to go to a college-prep high school. Then maybe they will put more of themselves into their schooling and their parents would take the away the TV's, video games, cell phones, stereos, etc. and actually make their kids do their homework. Kids (and their parents) would need to earn the right to continue their free education.

This could also be applied to elementary school as well. I think a lot of parents see school as simply a babysitting system. No child should enter kindergarten unless they already possess certain skills (count to 5, identify shapes and colors, be able to sit for 10 minutes and listen to a story, be able to write their name, etc.) If they are not ready, they go into a special pre-school program. That's where the remediation starts. Maybe if parents knew that their children couldn't enter school without a few skills, they'd turn off the TV, start reading to their kids, and provide them with appropriate early education.

 

[TouchDown]

Just went to a PTA meeting that had to do with the 50+ transfers into the school last minute during the opening week due to NCLB.

What a stupid law with unattainable goals.

"Schools will 'fail' if 100% of students do not meet grade level math and reading for all 8 categories by 2014.

I consider the school district I'm in to be a good district, we're in a college town and the population is highly educted, and 5 of 18 elementary schools were the only one's to pass this year, and the cut rates just keep climbing year after year until they max out the goal at 100% in 2014.

I don't care how good the school is and how hard the teachers work and how dedicated the parents are... to expect 100% of students reading and doing math at grade level ... pretty rediculous. AND, the district is supposed to make year on year improvements, while the budget is the way it is right now... and now they have to pay for additional busing of students to meet the school choice requirement.

 

[Dexman1349]

I was reading "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. It was written in the post-depresion era (published in 1937). With today's economy, the two books definately have alot of parallels, including the public education system. One of the problems he saw back then with the public education system is still present today: it's free*. Anyways, this holds true for just about everything else in our lives. Admit it, if you get something for free (or a severely reduced price), it's hard not to give that item a certain level of expendibility and disrespect. I know this isn't 100% true, but look at the grand majority. Look at the kids who are given free rides through college through trust funds, do they give a **** about their college lives? Most of them don't. For those of us who worked our butts off to get the loans and pay our way through schools, how do you think we treat our educations? We respect the hell out of what we did.

*free: we all know our taxes & other social fees fund the schools, but unless you actually write a check to the school for tuition it still comes with a "free" stigma.

You want to get parents more involved in their kids k-12 education: remove it from the local county & state spending budgets, give those respective taxes back to the parents and make them write a check to the school. When the parents see that check for $200, $300, or higher going out each week / month / semester, don't you think they would give a **** about what their kids were doing with that money?

I know this would never work out as it doesn't address things like overly poor communities, and would definately expand the already growing seperation between haves and have-nots, but it's hard not to think a concept like this couldn't at least be partially implemented.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

No child should enter kindergarten unless they already possess certain skills (count to 5, identify shapes and colors, be able to sit for 10 minutes and listen to a story, be able to write their name, etc.) If they are not ready, they go into a special pre-school program. That's where the remediation starts. Maybe if parents knew that their children couldn't enter school without a few skills, they'd turn off the TV, start reading to their kids, and provide them with appropriate early education.

You would be shocked and saddened to know how many children enter first grade not knowing colors, the alphabet, how to count, and how to read. These are the parent's responsibility. unfortunately, a lot of parents can't be bothered.

Just went to a PTA meeting that had to do with the 50+ transfers into the school last minute during the opening week due to NCLB.
What a stupid law with unattainable goals.

"Schools will 'fail' if 100% of students do not meet grade level math and reading for all 8 categories by 2014.

You don't know the half of it. They are graded on a steadily increasing scale of performance and it is based on previous performance. Say your school improved from 88% of goal to 100% of goal, and mainted that 100% the next year. because you improved 12% last year and o% this year, guess what? "Unacceptable progress." next year you get 0% improvement again. "Failing school."

Insane. that's hapened here in SC (hardly a bastion of good schools) already.

One of the problems he saw back then with the public education system is still present today: it's free*. Anyways, this holds true for just about everything else in our lives. Admit it, if you get something for free (or a severely reduced price), it's hard not to give that item a certain level of expendibility and disrespect. I know this isn't 100% true, but look at the grand majority.

Hmmm...you, know, that's true....

 

[csb]

I knew a guy who was hired as a high school retention specialist. In our state, like many others, kids don't legally have to attend high school. From the outside, it looks all altruistic that the schools are trying to educate every student but instead it was a funding issue...every dropout meant they lost $9000 in funding. Kids were dollar signs. It also looked badly to have x% not graduate. That's what's odd...we went from actually wanting to educate kids to be able to function to turning it in to a money grab. School might not have benefited from a business model.

 

[snickerd3]

You would be shocked and saddened to know how many children enter first grade not knowing colors, the alphabet, how to count, and how to read. These are the parent's responsibility. unfortunately, a lot of parents can't be bothered.

things must have changed or else it is a regional thing. Kindergarden was for really learning the alphabet and writing ones name, the monthes, seasons etc... but learning to read was taught in first grade. There was only 1 girl in my kindergarden class that could read. The school district frowned upon parents teaching kids to read because it caused problems in the classroom...i.e. that's not how my mom/dad showed me etc...

 

[Guest]

I knew a guy who was hired as a high school retention specialist.

You knew Matt Foley ?!?!!



JR

 

[FLBuff PE]

^One of my all-time favorite SNL skits! That and the infamous 'More Cowbell' skit with Christopher Walken.

 

[Guest]

You can't get the full skit from YouTube ... but you can get ....



JR

 

[Capt Worley PE]

things must have changed or else it is a regional thing. Kindergarden was for really learning the alphabet and writing ones name, the monthes, seasons etc... but learning to read was taught in first grade. There was only 1 girl in my kindergarden class that could read. The school district frowned upon parents teaching kids to read because it caused problems in the classroom...i.e. that's not how my mom/dad showed me etc...

Back when I was a youngun, kindergarten wasn't a requirement, but children were expected to be able to do simple reading by first grade (Cat in the Hat/Little Golden Book type stuff).

 

[csb]

My dad, who is a very quiet and reserved guy, would frequently burst out with, "In a VAN, down by the RIVER!"

No Child Left Behind and state requirements has changed kindergarten GREATLY from what it used to be. Kids are now expected to know numbers up to at least 20, read, and do a lot more stuff that we didn't see until first or second grade. It is not unheard of for kids in full day kindergarten to come home with homework because there is so much more they have to know. Our district requires them to know a lot of the stuff in English AND Spanish. Kindergarten used to be like pre-school, but now it's like first grade.

 

[maryannette]

You cannot legislate good parenting. When you become a parent, you have a responsibility. It is a sobering responsibility. It takes a huge commitment. Most parents cannot do it by themselves. It takes a network of family, friends, teachers, etc. But, the parents MUST be involved. You cannot have a child unless you are willing to make the commitment.

But, I think I'm preaching to the choir.

 

[TouchDown]

My dad, who is a very quiet and reserved guy, would frequently burst out with, "In a VAN, down by the RIVER!"
No Child Left Behind and state requirements has changed kindergarten GREATLY from what it used to be. Kids are now expected to know numbers up to at least 20, read, and do a lot more stuff that we didn't see until first or second grade. It is not unheard of for kids in full day kindergarten to come home with homework because there is so much more they have to know. Our district requires them to know a lot of the stuff in English AND Spanish. Kindergarten used to be like pre-school, but now it's like first grade.

Our school was to count to 30 by end of KGDN and they had homework EVERY weekend. Math, reading, and problem solving.

It's not the picture coloring that I used to do when I was in KGDN... I think my main goal was to get an A in Naptime (we got graded on Nap back then).

 

[MGX]

Working with my 7 year old nephew through his 1st grade homework was a bit shocking. He has probably three times more learning than I had to do in 1st grade. I think I spent more time terrorizing all the little girls in class than learning since my mom had already taught me everything they tried to teach me.

 

[C-Dog]

The education system is not broken, the parents are. This is why there is a divide in education by social economic status. Having educated parents = not being poor = they enforce education at home because they knw it is worth something. If you are poor, you have more to worry about (eating, shelter...) than making sure your kids are educated. Schools are not failing the kids, parents are.

 

[benbo]

NCLB is an example of good intentions with poor planning and implementation. The concept of testing and accountability for teachers and students is important- that's how it works everywhere in life. But the system has to be fair and reasonable.

Anyway, as an aside, while I was in Peru my wife's relatives told me they no longer teach very much Peruvian history in school. They require English, and get this, United States History. Now if I could only get my Peruvian step-kid to learn his history here in the US. Sometimes it's easier said than done.

 

[Dleg]

One of the problems he saw back then with the public education system is still present today: it's free*.

Hmm.... I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Primarily because, once again, we're shifting the blame away from parents (and therefore society) by taking that approach. Look at Japan - people there apparently value their free* education, very highly. The primary difference is the society - they pressure the hell out of kids to succeed in school and work.

There's no easy way out. If I were benevolent dictator, I'd have to put the ACLU away in political prisons because of all the censorship I would do... internet, cable, movies, video games, cell phones, etc. etc. None of that for people under 18 in my empire.

 

[Dexman1349]

I agree with the difference in society outlooks between here and Japan, but how do you force a parent to give a ****?

There are thousands of parents out there whose sole reason for having kids is the increase in government support. They don't care about their kids. They get their food stams and gvmt allowances and that's all they care about. There are thousands more in the middle-class for the most part who WANT to care for their kids, but end up working just a little longer each day because they HAD to have that nice suburban home + the nice new cars + the doodads (cell phones, computers, HDTV, restaurant trips, etc.) so they can LOOK rich despite the fact they are 1 missed paycheck away from bankruptcy. That basically leaves the rich who either pay someone to give a **** about the kids for them, or don't have kids at all. All three of these scenarios, I ask again, how do you force them to give a ****? You can't force someone who's learned how to live off of the government for free, you can't force a "better than the Jones" to focus on anything other than the Jones, and the rich just seem to do whatever the hell they want so there's no forcing them.

Another ingredient to be added into the mix:

The baby-boomers grew up as a generation of "entitlements." Things like employer-provided pensions, social security, welfare, medic-aid/-care were established and became the foundations of society as they entered the workforce and started their families. They learned that others would provide for them and begin to develop an understanding that it's ok to say things like "it's not my job," and "it's someone elses fault" if they were given tasks that they didn't want to do or if there were outcomes they didn't like. Now take that generation and let them have kids. Those kids (gen x, gen y) are growing up learning to have certain expectations towards free and discounted things and the ability to pass the buck (including a government & school system to provide all they need and more for free*). Once again, how do you force someone who was taught BY SOCIETY to "pass the buck" to give a crap about their kids?

Are there exceptions to the scenarios above, of course. Is taking accountibilty for our kids the easy way out, no. Most of us here love spending time with our kids (if we have them). We enjoy going to the park in the afternoons, we love reading to our little ones before bed, we love watching kiddie sports events, but we WORK for it. IMO it's the most rewarding job there is.

My only other thought on the subject is this: screw it. Leave it the way it is. If you want your kids to excel in school, do something about it. Become a role model for your kids, provide teaching/learning opportunities in the home, get involved with your school & after-school activities. I know I am preaching to the choir on this.

This last comment will come out alot harsher (and alot more cliche) than I intend but,

someone has to grow up to become the janitor/maid/mechanic/gas station attendant/retail clerk. High school isn't for everyone. There is nothing wrong with doing these jobs. They may not provide all of the riches and glory, but they do provide incomes that someone can survive on. You want more than this for yourself or for your kids, work for it. Don't blame society when your child fails in school. Who taught your child how to learn? It's the parents job to teach the kids how to learn, its the teachers job to teach the info.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

^True dat.

If I were benevolent dictator, I'd have to put the ACLU away in political prisons because of all the censorship I would do... internet, cable, movies, video games, cell phones, etc. etc. None of that for people under 18 in my empire.

That was pretty much the authors solution.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

The education system is not broken, the parents are.

Children having and doing a poor job of raising children...drop-outs having and doing a poor job of raising more future drop-outs. Parents who are content with the jobs...or NO jobs...they have and who endow their children with that contentment.

Add to that a pervasive negativity about education, which trickles down to the children, mix in with a view that teachers are "public servants" who don't need a competitive wage, and you have a recipe for a poor outlook for children.

Guess what kind of adults you get?