Useless degrees are useless

[YMZ PE]

I really doubt he's a "lazy bum" or feels entitled, considering how hard he worked through school.

It could be insecurity about what he has to offer after being rejected a few times. Or it could be doubt about whether he wants to work an 8-5 the rest of his life (this mindset is a common affliction in my generation).

Insecurity and doubt can be paralyzing to one's ambitions.

 

[csb]

Knew a mechanical engineer who graduated with honors, TBP member, extra projects in 2002 and he could NOT find a job. Ended up working at Applebee's while he looked for other jobs. Knew another MechE who was in the same boat and built houses with his dad for a couple of years until a job opened up. Some engineering majors are harder to place than others.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I really doubt he's a "lazy bum" or feels entitled, considering how hard he worked through school.

Lazy bum is kinda a default response. He probably isn't.

But, I've seen the entitlement mentality across the board in younger folks during my teaching time a few years ago. Pretty disenheartening.

On the other hand, I'd say a good 5% of my old students will probably be movers and shakers.

Some engineering majors are harder to place than others.

Especially if you want to stay in a certain area.

 

[envirotex]

... doubt about whether he wants to work an 8-5 the rest of his life (this mindset is a common affliction in my generation).

This isn't a necessarily bad thing...if this is the reason, and he can meet his obligations (his loans), and he's happier than working in a cubicle, then why not?

 

[EM_PS]

He has had a few interviews since May but has not landed anything yet. I have even tried to steer him to some opportunities that I know exist but for some reason he has not followed up

He's not following up b/c for first time in his life he's charting his own course - zany & reckless though it may be.

My question: How does, what I have alway thought, a good degree like engineering become a useless degree?

Allowing certain degrees have better utility than others, any degree is only as useful as the recipient makes it to be. I wouldn't sweat too much on this friend, his degree will be just as good a year or two after graduation as it is now. 9 x out of 10 it'll come down to 'who he knows' anyways over 'what he knows'. Anyways, hopefully a year down the road he'll have some fire in his belly for something bigger.

 

[Lumber Jim]

All Excellent comments! ( I'll do my best to respond...)

Capt - Not sure about the entitlement/Lazy statement but he might be used to things coming fairly easily. Passed the FE in school by studying way less than I did...

He's Mechanical and therefore, in my opinion, less constrained on the type of engineering that he could potentially get into.

snickered - he seems like the type that could get discouraged for not having things work out just right.

MA_PE - What I meant is that Bills + Income = negative total on the bottom line and his parent won't be able to bail him out (mixture of ability and willingness to do so...)

I see the consequences as bad but I don't think he sees them or he wouldn't even be consideringing relocating for $9.50/hr

Maybe the way that i'm thinking about this is wrong. The degree is not useless but he's change his direction to where he's definately not applying it to his benefit.

YMZ- I agree with "Insecurity and doubt can be paralyzing to one's ambitions" but I think he has the support group that should help him drudge onward and now that loan

payments are due his motivation should be elevated.

CSB- The applebees job could probably allow you to pay the bills if you lived at home and worked as many hours as you possible could with a dependance on tips coming in.

(tips being the risk that you are taking) While not ideal, this could be a workable solution.

The Ski hill manager gig won't even get his loans payed much less allow him to eat but I'm sure he will have lots of fun...

Envirotex- There is no way that this will work out for meeting his financial obligations. The math just doesn't add up.

EM_PS- I agree with the what you know vs. who you know. The "what you know" comes quickly and later from working in the field. The problem here is that he has the connections

to be sucessful but won't apply them. Maybe this is another one of those details for sucess that needs to be learned.

Final question: What should I tell the guy the next time that I see him - "When you find yourself starving, keep it to yourself cause I'm not driving to Colorado to pick your *** up!" ???

 

[YMZ PE]

From talking with him, do you get the sense he's flippant about his decision? If so, a verbal ***** slap may be in order, but if it seems like there's more going on in his head, I'd just ask questions and withhold judgment until you get his perspective.

 

[snickerd3]

if you feel obligated to say anything, maybe give him the name of some technical/professional staffing agencies like manpower professional or kelly services...even their min $per hr is likely to be better than the ski hill.

 

[MA_PE]

you tell him "Good for you. Have fun". Some folks need to learn things on their own. Unless you feel some dire obligation, if he calls you to come and get him...just say "no can do". You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Edit: If he gets a place to stay in ski country, make sure you take a trip out there to stay with him and get some partying and free skiing in before the walls come crashing down.

 

[EM_PS]

From talking with him, do you get the sense he's flippant about his decision? If so, a verbal ***** slap may be in order,

I'd lean more towards a verbal donkey punch in this case

you tell him "Good for you. Have fun". Some folks need to learn things on their own. Unless you feel some dire obligation, if he calls you to come and get him...just say "no can do". You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Edit: If he gets a place to stay in ski country, make sure you take a trip out there to stay with him and get some partying and free skiing in before the walls come crashing down.

^This - he's an adult w/ debt in his name; presumably, he'll find his way, like we all had to

 

[cdcengineer]

you tell him "Good for you. Have fun". Some folks need to learn things on their own. Unless you feel some dire obligation, if he calls you to come and get him...just say "no can do". You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Edit: If he gets a place to stay in ski country, make sure you take a trip out there to stay with him and get some partying and free skiing in before the walls come crashing down.

^ This!

There's nothing wrong with paddling your own canoe and living your life the eay you choose. He has his whole life to work, maybe now is his time to have some fun.

Consider this, you may only live once. You can never be young and crazy when you're 40 with children. There's a fine line between having money and no time, or having time but no money. He may be trying to find the balance between them.

FWIW, I followed a similar path and nearly 20 years later I have no regrets. Life is good. Live it!

 

[Lumber Jim]

you tell him "Good for you. Have fun". Some folks need to learn things on their own. Unless you feel some dire obligation, if he calls you to come and get him...just say "no can do". You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Edit: If he gets a place to stay in ski country, make sure you take a trip out there to stay with him and get some partying and free skiing in before the walls come crashing down.

^ This!

There's nothing wrong with paddling your own canoe and living your life the eay you choose. He has his whole life to work, maybe now is his time to have some fun.

Consider this, you may only live once. You can never be young and crazy when you're 40 with children. There's a fine line between having money and no time, or having time but no money. He may be trying to find the balance between them.

FWIW, I followed a similar path and nearly 20 years later I have no regrets. Life is good. Live it!

^This changes my perspective a bit. When I graduated, I had a wife and baby on the way (no regrets for me either). He's more free to do whatever he wants... But working on a ski hill with no life insurance or medical benefits? Zero chance of bringing in enough to pay the bills and feed yourself? This seems absolutely insane to me!

Oh well. I'll keep my mouth shut unless there is a hint of hesitancy. At which point I may go the "verbal donkey punch" route...

Thanks all!! I'm very impressed with the insight that you have from the short and poorly written statements that I have provided.

 

[YMZ PE]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that graduating with an engineering degree and taking a minimum wage job first thing out of school is still better than graduating with a liberal arts degree. Period.

 

[Supe]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that graduating with an engineering degree and taking a minimum wage job first thing out of school is still better than graduating with a liberal arts degree. Period.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

He's more free to do whatever he wants... But working on a ski hill with no life insurance or medical benefits? Zero chance of bringing in enough to pay the bills and feed yourself? This seems absolutely insane to me!

That's his problem, not yours.

No sense borrowing other people's problems.

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that graduating with an engineering degree and taking a minimum wage job first thing out of school is still better than graduating with a liberal arts degree. Period.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

He's more free to do whatever he wants... But working on a ski hill with no life insurance or medical benefits? Zero chance of bringing in enough to pay the bills and feed yourself? This seems absolutely insane to me!

That's his problem, not yours.

Until he ends up in the ER and can't pay his medical bills. Congrats America, your rates are now higher to cover it!!

 

[Capt Worley PE]

He's more free to do whatever he wants... But working on a ski hill with no life insurance or medical benefits? Zero chance of bringing in enough to pay the bills and feed yourself? This seems absolutely insane to me!

That's his problem, not yours.

Until he ends up in the ER and can't pay his medical bills. Congrats America, your rates are now higher to cover it!!

I'm fine with that.

 

[Slugger926]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that graduating with an engineering degree and taking a minimum wage job first thing out of school is still better than graduating with a liberal arts degree. Period.

I did that coming out of undergrad, and it was an engineering job (basically at intern pay). After 6 months, I found something else with experience under my belt.

Now coming out of grad school, I wish it was easier to find someone that will take a chance on me. Now they look at me and say I am overqualified for the frontline jobs, and fear that I will leave after a year. Following the people they already hire on LinkedIN, it looks like most of them leave after a year anyway.

 

[snickerd3]

I think that says more about their work environment than the people they are hiring. Something isn't right if people are still looking

 

[Exengineer]

Seems like over half of students in college would have been better off pursuing something else, perhaps vocational training, trades or technical institute.  Not everyone benefits from a university education.  Looks like most do not.