Useless degrees are useless

[Supe]

I think coming from a middle class family is the butter zone for future success. In poorer households, the parents usually don't give a shit about education or success for their children, so they breed lazy, welfare queens. In richer households, the children are spoiled rotten, handed high-priced education on a silver platter, and they expect success without work (a la RG's example above). Of course, these are broad generalizations with scores of exceptions, but I'd wager that it's accurate more often than not.

Depends on how you measure success. Financially, I'm not too sure. In terms of being a productive member of society, I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I try and make my kids mow the grass, do chores around the house, there good with that as long as they get a little coin in exchange, but I dont see much "desire" to maybe mow the grass and go back and look for strips of grass that were missed.....its like they have no problem doing the work, but dont have much internal motivation to do it "well"...

I read this in an old Reder's Digest back in the seventies. I think it came from a mid-sixties edition. made an impression on me, but not what they wanted, as I fall squarely in the 'good enough is done' category.

http://emp.byui.edu/SmithS/GradingTheCountessandtheImpossible.htm

 

[Chucktown PE]

I came from a middle class family. My dad is a veterinarian and owns his own practice, so I learned a lot about running a business from him. While his business isn't huge, he makes a very nice income and manages it meticulously. My mom stayed home with the kids. My parents paid for my college with the caveat that I make A's and B's, which I did, as did my brothers. Of all the people we grew up with, my siblings and I are a very rare case in that we all worked in high school, did well in high school and college, and are living independent, self sufficient life styles. My youngest brother is finishing his last year of college (chemical engineering) and is planning on going to medical school so I can't say that he's independent yet, but I suspect he will be. Most of my parents' friends have at least one kid that's a total f-up, some times all of their kids are f-ups. A lot of them are 28, still living at home, got a worthless degree from an overpriced private school, and have no plans for the future. It baffles me how these people can get out of bed every morning.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

My dad knows some real horror stories about some of his friends' kids. One father's day he almost broke into tears telling us how glad he was that he raised two kids that didn't ask for money or return home to live.

I've seen plenty of college educated kids around here bleeding their parents dry.

 

[Chucktown PE]

My dad knows some real horror stories about some of his friends' kids. One father's day he almost broke into tears telling us how glad he was that he raised two kids that didn't ask for money or return home to live.

I've seen plenty of college educated kids around here bleeding their parents dry.

My parents' financial advisers are constantly telling them that raising self sufficient kids is the best thing they could have done for their financial future.

 

[Road Guy]

ive got two neighbors whose kids have been to college, but didnt finish, there at least 24 or 25 now, living at home and working half the time.. one of their parents told me they are going to sell there house and move into one of those 55 and older communities so there kids wont be able to stay with them anymore... I just dont want to be in that position! the econom aint the greatest in the world, but I just cant imagine why you wouldnt even try and go back to college and finish, or decide upon some full time retail job or something. the thought of being 25 and living in the same room as when I was in high school would just cause me some major emberassment...

I started working fast food jobs at 15, I want my kids to do the same, I think it gives them an eye into the world, i remember being a teenager and there were also people workign their full time that had kids and were trying to get by on $4. hour (min wage at the time)

 

[csb]

I've said a job in food service provides two things:

1. Respect for higher education.

2. Respect for people who are serving you food.

 

[Flyer_PE]

I didn't have a paying job until I was in my freshman year of college. I worked on my uncle's farm every summer from age 8 and stayed there full time through the end of high school. The pay was pretty much food and shelter but I think I gained an awful lot in the work ethic department. The idea of moving back in with my parents after college never even occurred to me. In my mind, that would have made the investment in my education a total failure.

 

[Ble_PE]

^The same can be said for jobs in retail as well. I've always said that people should have to work in a customer service position at some point. It will make you think twice about getting pissed off at the cashier when something doesn't ring up the right price, etc.

 

[YMZ PE]

My dad knows some real horror stories about some of his friends' kids. One father's day he almost broke into tears telling us how glad he was that he raised two kids that didn't ask for money or return home to live.

I've seen plenty of college educated kids around here bleeding their parents dry.

My parents' financial advisers are constantly telling them that raising self sufficient kids is the best thing they could have done for their financial future.

Problem is, too many parents don't know how to set boundaries or standards, or are unwilling to. I blame the "self-esteem" movement of the 70s. It gave people an excuse to opt out of the tough parts of parenting.

My brother has ADHD and dyslexia and was constantly flunking, but my tough immigrant parents spent tens of thousands of dollars pushing him through private schools and never gave him an out. Now he's making fatty money in IT and does a great job managing it. Meanwhile my parents' friends' kids, who are older than I am and have expensive degrees, live at home and use their retired parents' credit cards to buy gas. They were spoiled brats when we were kids and they're no better now.

 

[YMZ PE]

In some cases, sure the parents probably are to blame, but not in all and a generalized statement like the one you made is not really fair or accurate.

I didn't mean to generalize - I just meant RG's wife's cousin based on his description. It seemed like although she kept making poor choices, her parents sacrificed a lot for her without asking anything in return. But I really don't know the whole story so it was unfair to assume.
*Edit* For being so opinionated, I'm probably going to be eating humble pie with my own kids when they're grown. =P

 

[Capt Worley PE]

My dad knows some real horror stories about some of his friends' kids. One father's day he almost broke into tears telling us how glad he was that he raised two kids that didn't ask for money or return home to live.

I've seen plenty of college educated kids around here bleeding their parents dry.

My parents' financial advisers are constantly telling them that raising self sufficient kids is the best thing they could have done for their financial future.

Problem is, too many parents don't know how to set boundaries or standards, or are unwilling to. I blame the "self-esteem" movement of the 70s. It gave people an excuse to opt out of the tough parts of parenting.

Probably. I first became aware of it in the late seventies watching the interactions between parents and kids slightly younger than me. I remember thinking, "My mom would have my azz for that.."

 

[cdcengineer]

So, that being said, how could one son from the house on the left be doing good and the other son from the same family, given the same opportunities get a useless degree, get in legal trouble, and be living at home? You can't really blame that on the parents (well, maybe allowing him to live at home, but not his choices). And the family on the right side pretty much giving their kid the same opportunities as the other house, and their kid makes a good choice.

In some cases, sure the parents probably are to blame, but not in all and a generalized statement like the one you made is not really fair or accurate.

They don't call it dope for nothing.

 

[cdcengineer]

^ Agreed. There's no way to control kids. I think / hope that it's just a matter of teaching / drilling / driving the right ideas into their heads and as they face choices (and make bad ones), that ultimately they know the difference between good and bad or right and wrong and end up making the best decisions for them.

It's only the parents fault if they don't try and supply the tools for success (be that knowledge, structure, education, morals, etc.). I lived on the edge as did my brothers for years. But ultimately we all turned out OK. We have jobs, homes, families and speaking for myself, happiness. My Dad was an SOB. We all grew up determined to get out of the house. As soon as I made it out, I realized how much I loved and respected him.

I got to hand it to my parents, they did something right. I just wish i could've extracted some of his parenting skills and knowledge before he was gone. I'll teach my kids the only way I know how. Through what I know and think, assuming it is how I was trained. They will shovel, mow, empty DW, take out trash and anything else i feel they are capable of. They will learn that if they want something, they will have to earn it. There's no more satisfaction than earning something. That's a lesson I remember getting and it's my guess that too many kids now with their god given iphones can't comprehend.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

And to a certain extent, sometimes good decisions and good intentions just don't turn out the way they should. People get laid off and struggle with rebounding, some can be "sabotaged" by friends/coworkers, etc.

Even the best poker players lose with pocket aces sometimes...

 

[YMZ PE]

I caveat this by saying, there are many, many parents who do in fact contribute to the downfall of their children, I do not deny this. I am simply trying to call attention to the fact that it isn't always the case.

I think most of us agree with this. If it's any encouragement for you, Major Highway, I have family and friends whose children have autism, and while there is certainly a huge spectrum of severity, there's a noticeable difference in behavior and decision-making between the kids being raised by parents who are doing everything they can to provide consistency and discipline, and those who are unable to due to difficult life circumstances. You do the best you possibly can for your son, and I hope it continues to yield fruit.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

I came from a middle class family. My dad is a veterinarian and owns his own practice, so I learned a lot about running a business from him. While his business isn't huge, he makes a very nice income and manages it meticulously. My mom stayed home with the kids. My parents paid for my college with the caveat that I make A's and B's, which I did, as did my brothers. Of all the people we grew up with, my siblings and I are a very rare case in that we all worked in high school, did well in high school and college, and are living independent, self sufficient life styles. My youngest brother is finishing his last year of college (chemical engineering) and is planning on going to medical school so I can't say that he's independent yet, but I suspect he will be. Most of my parents' friends have at least one kid that's a total f-up, some times all of their kids are f-ups. A lot of them are 28, still living at home, got a worthless degree from an overpriced private school, and have no plans for the future. It baffles me how these people can get out of bed every morning.

My parents had a similar deal with me. They paid for my undergraduate degree and my first car and told me that I was on my own after that. My sister is a lawyer and I'm an engineer. If they had given us free reign to "find ourselves" in college, one or both of us might be living at home. A perfect example is a guy I went to HS with. He had a similar financial situation to me growing up, but he never applied himself at school. If he had spent 1/4 of the time he spent trying to get grades changed on actually doing homework, he would have done fine in school. His parents sent him to a private school where he proceeded to party for 2 semesters and flunk out. He's still a wart on the ass of society, and takes jobs where his parents indirectly support him (i.e., he was a waiter at a local mexican restaurant where his parents would frequently eat and tip him $100+. He now sells satellite TV service, and his parents were his first customers.) He's very self conscious of his stupid decisions in life, and whenever I hang out with him, he makes a big deal about how he's "not stupid, he just never put in the work at school." Well, if you are intelligent enough to do the work, but don't do it, that's still pretty damn stupid.

In his case, I blame his parents for not forcing him to do his homework every night (like my parents did) or make him get a useful college degree or refuse to pay for the education.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Saddest thing I ever saw was when a bunch of us that used to work together at a pool got together for a fifteen year 'reunion.' Everybody had a successful career: prosecutor, engineer, business owner, etc

Except one guy who pretty much partied his way through the eighties. He lugged bounce castles around and set them up. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I really got a sad vibe off of him when we were all talking about what we were up to, career-wise.

 

[snickerd3]

I didn't have a paying job until I was in my freshman year of college. I worked on my uncle's farm every summer from age 8 and stayed there full time through the end of high school. The pay was pretty much food and shelter but I think I gained an awful lot in the work ethic department. The idea of moving back in with my parents after college never even occurred to me. In my mind, that would have made the investment in my education a total failure.

THis

^The same can be said for jobs in retail as well. I've always said that people should have to work in a customer service position at some point. It will make you think twice about getting pissed off at the cashier when something doesn't ring up the right price, etc.

this. I worked at toyrsus starting at 15 through high school and some college breaks...

 

[engineergurl]

In all reality my degrees are pretty useless... if I chose for them to be. But because I have always been open to what employment comes my way, I have been able to expand on that "useless" major and build a semi-career from it. Granted, I didn't major in creative writing, but Forest Ecosystems Management was probably not the best choice either.