Useless degrees are useless

[cdcengineer]

Wil - parents can't force kids to do homework. They force that the TV is off or video games, etc.. But what parents can do is to try and instill the competitive drive and desire to succeed. I speak from my experience only, and maybe some of you can back me up, I had the desire to get good grades. School came easy to me, and that's probably partially due to the fact that I attended a flunky high school. But I enjoyed and derived satisfaction from being viewed as a flunky yet blowing test scores out of the water. It's like I had something to prove to everyone. I wanted to out perform at my job which was school.

Now-a-days all the kids are winners just for showing up - at least that's what I hear about on the news (my son is too young yet to participate so I have no direct experience). How about we teach American kids that winning is important and fun and that competition is good and promotes advancement of all kinds. There has to losers to have winners. And somebody's kids have to dig ditches and / or wash dishes. It's OK to be second or last, but being 1st provides opportunity for success. The easiest way to succeed is to try. Or they can always sit back and with a ton of luck, hope to be pro - athletes, musicians, whatevers - (insert pipe dream here).

 

[YMZ PE]

Wil - parents can't force kids to do homework. They force that the TV is off or video games, etc.. But what parents can do is to try and instill the competitive drive and desire to succeed.

This. But the hard part for parents is figuring out how to instill the desire to succeed (in a healthy way). I don't know if chores or working a job would do it if the kid isn't naturally competitive.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

My son developed alot of his competitive drive through video games... :true:

 

[EM_PS]

My brother graduated w/ a degree in communications (paid for by the 'rents). Upon graduation, he traveled down to Atlanta w/ a 4-person band to "break" into the music biz. That mercifully lasted only a year - he now works for a major office furniture manufacturer (hi-lo operator) & is actually doing just fine.

A friend of mine who served in Iraq got a surveying engineering degree paid for by the Army. Upon graduation, he found the recession had pretty much killed all surveying opps in MI anyways. He went to work for a directional drilling company and last I heard was making over 250K / yr, though arguably, he has no life.

As parents, you try to give all the tools you can to your kids so that they can succeed....but they actually have to believe that they can succeed, whatever path they choose. It can't just be "I completed 'A', so now 'B' happens. You / They pretty much have to make 'B' happen.

 

[envirotex]

In all reality my degrees are pretty useless... if I chose for them to be. But because I have always been open to what employment comes my way, I have been able to expand on that "useless" major and build a semi-career from it. Granted, I didn't major in creative writing, but Forest Ecosystems Management was probably not the best choice either.

Yep. My husband has an art degree. He is a general contractor and makes decent $ from that, but people seek him out for his his attention to detail and iron work designs...Most people would say that his degree is useless, but in reality it gives him an advantage because he received design training in school that most of his competitors didn't. BUT, in the end, it's really about taking advantage of what you can do well, not about your degree.

 

[engineergurl]

In all reality my degrees are pretty useless... if I chose for them to be. But because I have always been open to what employment comes my way, I have been able to expand on that "useless" major and build a semi-career from it. Granted, I didn't major in creative writing, but Forest Ecosystems Management was probably not the best choice either.

Yep. My husband has an art degree. He is a general contractor and makes decent $ from that, but people seek him out for his his attention to detail and iron work designs...Most people would say that his degree is useless, but in reality it gives him an advantage because he received design training in school that most of his competitors didn't. BUT, in the end, it's really about taking advantage of what you can do well, not about your degree.

my little two year engineering technology degree balances me out so that I really am a perfect NEPA person. I understand construction, I know the processes so I tend to be the glue that binds our department with progress.... or at least that is what I like to think... most of the people here don't know a lick about project management, how to read plans, or the information about other impacts, they just get a request for analysis and focus on the environmental impacts for their section and that is that. I'm the person that bounces around saying.... well, logically... we can bury a cultural site even further, and the plans show this is a fill area so we really should APPROVE this not say no....

 

[humner]

My neice has a degree in Museum Curator. I remember her telling me that her college counselor raved about the position. I responded that I would do my own research if I were her. She works at a clothing store in the mall after 5 years of college.

 

[YMZ PE]

Speaking of considering a major based on what an authority figure says, when I was a senior in high school my mom chewed me out for choosing to study engineering instead of medicine. She told me I was going to end up homeless. That still cracks me up, especially since I bought a house when I was 24.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

To those with success stories for people with seemingly useless degrees...do you think the degree either helped that person with knowledge gained or doors opened by having the degree? Or are those people just self-motivators that didn't have the book smarts or ambition to get a useful degree in college? Wouldn't they be just as successful with a high school diploma or vocational degree?

 

[engineergurl]

To those with success stories for people with seemingly useless degrees...do you think the degree either helped that person with knowledge gained or doors opened by having the degree? Or are those people just self-motivators that didn't have the book smarts or ambition to get a useful degree in college? Wouldn't they be just as successful with a high school diploma or vocational degree?

No I wouldn't be as successful. I learned my motivation while in college getting that useless degree. I was always a B-student, just enough to get by, more focused on my job and sports in high school. Not having to go to the community college like nearly everyone else in my class made me realize that if I put a little extra effort, I may actually get somewhere. My first degree was technically a vocational degree (Forest Technology), and then I transferred to the 4 year school and realized, I picked a really stupid major... I finished because I had started it and was pretty far into it.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

I would also argue that degrees are worth what you do with them. My wife's first degree was in Urban Planning. With that degree, she ended up working for Home Depot in the customer service desk. In this case, her degree was truly worthless.

However, a couple years later, she used her degree to get accepted into an accelerated nursing program at a local university. The program was opened up to anyone with a bachelor's degree, and after 10 months of classes & clinicals, she earned a 2nd bachelor's degree (Nursing). So in this case, her degree was NOT worthless, as without it she wouldn't have been able to get into the program. If she had to go back to a regular BSN program at any other university, she would be graduating this spring instead of already celebrating her 3 yr anniversary at her current job. She is already looking into master's programs for next year so she can climb the ladder into the management ranks...

 

[MGX]

I always play Devil's Advocate with this argument. Some say colleges and universities are vo techs for smart people; that is people enroll to gain marketable skills. Personally I think the role of the colleges and universitites is to educate people.

If one wants to be formally educated they should attend a university. That seems to be the point IMO. I did study engineering not just because the skills are marketable but because it is something I enjoy and find interesting.

Some people can study things others find dumb but the importance of education is that anyone can learn lots of skills while at university. It seems that these skills are what is marketable, not just the title of the degree.

 

[envirotex]

To those with success stories for people with seemingly useless degrees...do you think the degree either helped that person with knowledge gained or doors opened by having the degree? Or are those people just self-motivators that didn't have the book smarts or ambition to get a useful degree in college? Wouldn't they be just as successful with a high school diploma or vocational degree?

In my husband's case, it has helped just to be able to check the box that says you have a college degree...I think it garners a little more respect from his clients. Plus, he can also say that he is an "artist".

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

However, if one wants to drop $20k a year to be "educated", wouldn't it also be in their best interest to do so with some kind of long-term financial plan (ie. job) in place?

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

To those with success stories for people with seemingly useless degrees...do you think the degree either helped that person with knowledge gained or doors opened by having the degree? Or are those people just self-motivators that didn't have the book smarts or ambition to get a useful degree in college? Wouldn't they be just as successful with a high school diploma or vocational degree?

In my husband's case, it has helped just to be able to check the box that says you have a college degree...I think it garners a little more respect from his clients. Plus, he can also say that he is an "artist".

Additionally, some companies adjust their baseline for pay based on whether you have a degree or not. I know my wife gets an extra $1-2 per hour just because she has a second BS degree, despite the fact that said degree is "worthless".

It's fairly common for big box stores (namely Walmart), to reject applicants with degrees for the sole reason that their company policy is to pay college grads more.

 

[cdcengineer]

Obtaining a degree can teach a person how to learn. For me at least - it wasn't what I was learning (although the fundamental engineering was there), it was more how to continue life long learning.

 

[EM_PS]

To those with success stories for people with seemingly useless degrees...do you think the degree either helped that person with knowledge gained or doors opened by having the degree? Wouldn't they be just as successful with a high school diploma or vocational degree?

I think in the case of my brother, the degree did nothing, and he'd be just as far w/out any college. For my buddy, the degree def helped, as did 4 yrs in Uncle Sam's Army.

 

[envirotex]

However, if one wants to drop $20k a year to be "educated", wouldn't it also be in their best interest to do so with some kind of long-term financial plan (ie. job) in place?

Except, my husband's degree cost only $4000/year...subsidized public universities in Texas. (See my post about my ridiculous property taxes). Well worth the money.

 

[Flyer_PE]

Cost is a big part of it. A college degree is an investment. If you are borrowing money to make that investment, you had better have a good idea of just how much you will be earning in relation to how much you will owe. There are a lot of kids/parents spending a lot of money for negligible returns on the investment.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

There are a lot of kids/parents spending a lot of money for negligible returns on the investment.

Their return on investment is being able to tell their other snobby friends that their kid went to Haaavaad.