Results From October SE?

[NCEng45]

Well, 4 years, 64 exam hours, and about a year of cumulative studying later...I finally passed both exams (5th attempt for VF and 3rd attempt for LF).  I hope this can encourage those of you who aren't in the select few able to pass this thing on the first or second attempt.  Coming into this exam 4 years ago, I had never failed at any test I had taken (1 undergrad and 2 masters degrees included).  But this one is a different animal in every possible way.  It is certainly passable but will take every bit of effort and a little bit of good fortune to make it happen.  To be honest, I felt less confident this time around than past attempts.  In the past, I answered all the questions on both parts and in both exams.  On this one, I know I didn't get to answer half of one of the PM VF problems and incorrectly answers half of one of the LF PM problems.  I answers all the AM problems within the time limit confidently.  The only thing I can think of is that I simply was more accurate with the answers I gave in the morning (70% was the best I had done in the past) and perhaps explained myself better and more clearly in the PM questions with more traceable references (previous best was 1 acceptable and 2 needs improvements).

I will note that I did submit a set of comments to NCEES concerning some specific PM questions I felt were too time consuming for the 4 hour time limit and a question I felt was misleading.  I explained my reasoning and they did respond promptly that they were appreciative of my comments and would consider them when working on a passing score.  I do not know for sure if this helped but it seems reasonable that it may have.   I know some mentioned they missed the window for comments so I would encourage you in future exams to take advantage if you truely have a constructive comment.  Please do not use it to complain or provide unhelpful feedback as that doesn't help NCEES, you, or your peers.

So, to those of you stuck in the cycle of SE Exam failures, I know your pain and know that you can pass this thing still if you are close.  To those of you considering taking this exam, be warned that it will be a bigger sacrifice than you are likely considering and be sure you are in it for the long haul unless you are academically above most of the rest of us.  Congrats of course to all who passed.

 

[Nathan55]

Well, 4 years, 64 exam hours, and about a year of cumulative studying later...I finally passed both exams (5th attempt for VF and 3rd attempt for LF).  I hope this can encourage those of you who aren't in the select few able to pass this thing on the first or second attempt.  Coming into this exam 4 years ago, I had never failed at any test I had taken (1 undergrad and 2 masters degrees included).  But this one is a different animal in every possible way.  It is certainly passable but will take every bit of effort and a little bit of good fortune to make it happen.  To be honest, I felt less confident this time around than past attempts.  In the past, I answered all the questions on both parts and in both exams.  On this one, I know I didn't get to answer half of one of the PM VF problems and incorrectly answers half of one of the LF PM problems.  I answers all the AM problems within the time limit confidently.  The only thing I can think of is that I simply was more accurate with the answers I gave in the morning (70% was the best I had done in the past) and perhaps explained myself better and more clearly in the PM questions with more traceable references (previous best was 1 acceptable and 2 needs improvements).

I will note that I did submit a set of comments to NCEES concerning some specific PM questions I felt were too time consuming for the 4 hour time limit and a question I felt was misleading.  I explained my reasoning and they did respond promptly that they were appreciative of my comments and would consider them when working on a passing score.  I do not know for sure if this helped but it seems reasonable that it may have.   I know some mentioned they missed the window for comments so I would encourage you in future exams to take advantage if you truely have a constructive comment.  Please do not use it to complain or provide unhelpful feedback as that doesn't help NCEES, you, or your peers.

So, to those of you stuck in the cycle of SE Exam failures, I know your pain and know that you can pass this thing still if you are close.  To those of you considering taking this exam, be warned that it will be a bigger sacrifice than you are likely considering and be sure you are in it for the long haul unless you are academically above most of the rest of us.  Congrats of course to all who passed.

Congrats on passing. Glad to see your hard work paid off. 

 

[kl/r_robots]

still waiting in MN. this is cruel and unusual punishment for my likely failure!

 

[StruEng]

still waiting in MN. this is cruel and unusual punishment for my likely failure!

Apparently it's time consuming for the MN board to upload results for the 10 of us who took it... But maybe that's because 9 of those results will include a diagnostic . Which likely includes my results. 

 

[GTTrekkie]

Well, Texas is in... First time and failed both with (2) A, (1) IR, (1) UA... Mornings were both about the same with 21 & 25, Vert & Lat, respectively. I can't say I'm overly surprised, both days were brutal. This April, I'll take only 1 day so that I have some sanity left, and hopefully my stomach will stop churning by then. At the end of the day its very disappointing but I did learn a lot outside of my day-to-day activities. 

Congrats to all who passed.

See you...out there

 

[tj_PE]

Well, Texas is in... First time and failed both with (2) A, (1) IR, (1) UA... Mornings were both about the same with 21 & 25, Vert & Lat, respectively. I can't say I'm overly surprised, both days were brutal. This April, I'll take only 1 day so that I have some sanity left, and hopefully my stomach will stop churning by then. At the end of the day its very disappointing but I did learn a lot outside of my day-to-day activities. 

Congrats to all who passed.

See you...out there

I too am only taking vertical in april. first attempt in WA. Good luck with your studies!

 

[HiroAndJen]

Well, Texas is in... First time and failed both with (2) A, (1) IR, (1) UA... Mornings were both about the same with 21 & 25, Vert & Lat, respectively. I can't say I'm overly surprised, both days were brutal. This April, I'll take only 1 day so that I have some sanity left, and hopefully my stomach will stop churning by then. At the end of the day its very disappointing but I did learn a lot outside of my day-to-day activities. 

Congrats to all who passed.

See you...out there

Same here!  I'm super bummed because I knew I was hedging my bets on the Lateral Exam, but felt pretty solid about the Vertical Exam. 

However, I am pretty burnt by a lot of things in my personal life too. So I'm not 100% positive I have the energy to even take 1 of the 2 in April.

That being said, does anyone know how often and at what intervals they change the codes? Having just forked over a bucket of money, I don't want to have to do it again if I wait too long to retake the exams. 

 

[kl/r_robots]

https://ncees.org/engineering/se/

per that webpage, any updates for the upcoming april exam should have been posted in November. hopefully that's the case!

 

[kl/r_robots]

so...only 6 first timers passed bridge lateral. uffda

 

[kevo_55]

uffda

 

[kl/r_robots]

you betcha!

 

[NCEng45]

Same here!  I'm super bummed because I knew I was hedging my bets on the Lateral Exam, but felt pretty solid about the Vertical Exam. 

However, I am pretty burnt by a lot of things in my personal life too. So I'm not 100% positive I have the energy to even take 1 of the 2 in April.

That being said, does anyone know how often and at what intervals they change the codes? Having just forked over a bucket of money, I don't want to have to do it again if I wait too long to retake the exams. 

Sorry to hear this.  I know how you can be burnt out as I posted above.  Definitely not going to tell you to just work harder and it will happen.  I will be real with you...make sure your priorities are in the order you want them.  If the exam is costing you things that are more important like family, your marriage, your kids, your health, etc, you may want to consider taking some time away and putting first things first.  This was probably my last attempt if it hadn't gone my way due to the strain on family.  I had finally reached a point that I was ok with not passing if that was the Lord's will.  It had been something I idolized and finally I gave it up and realized this wasn't going to complete me as a person.  So, just don't be afraid to take a step away if it is the right time for you.  If you are fine to go forward, take some time to think about specific ways you can improve and create a revised game plan on how you are going to get better.  Doing the same thing will not help.  Don't reinvent things that are working but do change things up if they aren't working.

In terms of the code updates, this is something I was fearful of as well.  For buildings, I know it is mostly based on when NCEES changes to the next IBC.  All the changes to the other codes are based on which versions are adopted by the IBC edition currently used by NCEES.   The IBC update is usually in the same increments as the code updates (every 3 years) but lagging a few years behind.  For instance, it is currently IBC 2015 as of the beginning of 2018.  I know in 2015 they first went from 2009 IBC to 2012 IBC.  Given this pattern, I would expect the change to occur at the beginning of 2021 for the NCEES to adopt the 2018 IBC for its codes.  Don't quote me on this as I am not an expert, but it seems reasonable.  Now, keep in mind, this change will be significant as essentially all of the codes will be revised, including the steel manual and ASCE 7 (which didn't change in the last update).  I hear the ASCE 7-16 is quite a big change and is one reason I was getting desperate to pass soon.

For AASHTO, I am not sure how often but I believe it is as often as they update the code but lagging behind a few years.  I would expect the frequency of updates and the lag distance to be consistent so you can look into when that one may update.  I do not know about future updates but the current version wasn't much different from before and I simply used the help of David Conner's Bridge book to update my older AASHTO version to the new one by swapping out only the sections that were noted as having changed.  I then recopied my hand notes and highlights for those sections only rather than for all the sections.  This prevented me from having to rehilight and renote all of the text.  I am a buildings person so that may be different if you are bridge focused and it may be different if the update is more significant next time.

Hope this helps...

 

[David Connor SE]

https://ncees.org/engineering/se/

per that webpage, any updates for the upcoming april exam should have been posted in November. hopefully that's the case!

I asked NCEES this a couple weeks and per them they will not be changing the codes for the April 2019 exam.  Hopefully that will also be the case for the October 2019 exam, but I guess they could update then as well.  I do know that when they update to AASHTO 8th edition, it will be a pretty big change for the bridge exam. The changes from the 7th to 8th edition of AASHTO are extensive.

 

[Nathan55]

Sorry to hear this.  I know how you can be burnt out as I posted above.  Definitely not going to tell you to just work harder and it will happen.  I will be real with you...make sure your priorities are in the order you want them.  If the exam is costing you things that are more important like family, your marriage, your kids, your health, etc, you may want to consider taking some time away and putting first things first.  This was probably my last attempt if it hadn't gone my way due to the strain on family.  I had finally reached a point that I was ok with not passing if that was the Lord's will.  It had been something I idolized and finally I gave it up and realized this wasn't going to complete me as a person.  So, just don't be afraid to take a step away if it is the right time for you.  If you are fine to go forward, take some time to think about specific ways you can improve and create a revised game plan on how you are going to get better.  Doing the same thing will not help.  Don't reinvent things that are working but do change things up if they aren't working.

In terms of the code updates, this is something I was fearful of as well.  For buildings, I know it is mostly based on when NCEES changes to the next IBC.  All the changes to the other codes are based on which versions are adopted by the IBC edition currently used by NCEES.   The IBC update is usually in the same increments as the code updates (every 3 years) but lagging a few years behind.  For instance, it is currently IBC 2015 as of the beginning of 2018.  I know in 2015 they first went from 2009 IBC to 2012 IBC.  Given this pattern, I would expect the change to occur at the beginning of 2021 for the NCEES to adopt the 2018 IBC for its codes.  Don't quote me on this as I am not an expert, but it seems reasonable.  Now, keep in mind, this change will be significant as essentially all of the codes will be revised, including the steel manual and ASCE 7 (which didn't change in the last update).  I hear the ASCE 7-16 is quite a big change and is one reason I was getting desperate to pass soon.

For AASHTO, I am not sure how often but I believe it is as often as they update the code but lagging behind a few years.  I would expect the frequency of updates and the lag distance to be consistent so you can look into when that one may update.  I do not know about future updates but the current version wasn't much different from before and I simply used the help of David Conner's Bridge book to update my older AASHTO version to the new one by swapping out only the sections that were noted as having changed.  I then recopied my hand notes and highlights for those sections only rather than for all the sections.  This prevented me from having to rehilight and renote all of the text.  I am a buildings person so that may be different if you are bridge focused and it may be different if the update is more significant next time.

Hope this helps...

What are some things you did to change your study plan for success? I figure that everyone works the two practice exams (PPI & NCEES) and even still, nearly 70% fail. 

 

[NCEng45]

What are some things you did to change your study plan for success? I figure that everyone works the two practice exams (PPI & NCEES) and even still, nearly 70% fail. 

Nathan,

I would be happy to provide you with a detailed list of the improvements I have made during my journey.  I will put it together and send it to you.  I suppose it will be difficult to put much detail in a post like this so I may need to send it to you via a private message or email.  If you want me to do that (or if anyone else wants me to as well), let me know.

 

[SE-wishes]

I took the NCEES practice exam for Lateral, finished in 3 hours and got 36 or 37 out of 40! Real exam performance was not remotely close to that.

 

[Nathan55]

Nathan,

I would be happy to provide you with a detailed list of the improvements I have made during my journey.  I will put it together and send it to you.  I suppose it will be difficult to put much detail in a post like this so I may need to send it to you via a private message or email.  If you want me to do that (or if anyone else wants me to as well), let me know.

Thanks. I'll send a message.

 

[NCEng45]

I took the NCEES practice exam for Lateral, finished in 3 hours and got 36 or 37 out of 40! Real exam performance was not remotely close to that.

Iv'e had that frustration.  You likely need more problem type exposure and there are a limited set of problems.  Consider the following if you don't already have them:

1. PPI SE Structural Breadth 6 minute problems – Probably a little more involved than typical AM problems in my opinion so very good practice

2. PPI SE Solved Problems – Very good for PM preparation as the problems are a little more involved and difficult than what you will likely see.

3. PPI problems in back of PPI Concrete Design, Steel Design, and Seismic Design – Contains both AM and PM level problems.  Also, example problems throughout these texts were very helpful as practice

4. PPI STERM example problems and end of chapter problems – These were helpful but not as much as others.

5. PPI Practice Exams VF & LF

6. McGraw Hill Practice Exams VF & LF – these were good but had a fair amount of errors in them so be wise about checking your work.

7. NCEES Practice Exams VF & LF

8. Many problems in reference text books.  Examples are helpful for sure.  Answers may not be available to practice problems at end unless you can get a solutions manual on Chegg or something.  I used the following for each of the major disciplines:

a. Wood: Design of Wood Structures by Breyer, et al. 7th ed.

b. Steel: Steel Structures Design & Behavior by Salmon et al. 5th ed.

c. Concrete: Design of Reinforced Concrete by McCormac et al. 10th ed.

d. Masonry: Masonry Structural Design by Tanner & Klingner 2nd ed.

e. Foundations: Foundation Design Principles & Practices by Coduto 2nd ed.

f. Analysis: Structural Analysis by Hibbeler 9th ed.

9. David Connor’s Bridge Practice Problems VF & LF combined text - This and an understanding of AASHTO and where to find things should be all you need for AM bridge problems.

 

[NCEng45]

I would also add that if you can compile a single spreadsheet with a reference to all the problems you found helpful based on topic type, this would likely be helpful both during the final stages of studying when you need to review certain topics and also as a quick exam reference.  Some nice person online posted their table and I started with that and added a few myself.  If I find out who to credit, I will, but you can likely find it via google.

 

[NCEng45]

Also, all of those text editions should be current code editions with exception to the wood reference.  It is the most current available but only 2012 NDS I believe.  But, not much has changed since then. Foundations and Analysis text might not reference the current codes but it doesn't apply much for those.