October 2019 Post Exam Wait Period - Welcome to the Suck

[Sloth_1989]

Another $350 for the April exam. 

 

[TwistedLeague]

Another $350 for the April exam. 

More like 350$ for exam. 250$ for another review book. 550$ for another review course....

 

[Adem_5%_Pass]

It's weird.

By law (? statute? regulation? rule? whatever), Texas has defined 70% as the score required to pass. But Texas doesn't get to determine the passing score. NCEES determines the passing score (called the cut score), and it's different for every exam and different every time the exam is administered.

NCEES determines the cut score by having a committee of existing PEs weigh the difficulty of each question and assess what percentage of PEs should reasonably be able to get that question right. It's a whole process. But the takeaway for this discussion is that the passing score is different for every exam (Civil: WRE, vs Civil: Construction, vs Mech: HVAC, etc). And it changes every time the exam is administered (Civil: WRE April 2019 is different than Civil: WRE Oct 2019, etc). Also we don't get to know what the cut score is.

So NCEES says the (unknown) cut score is passing, and Texas says you need 70% to pass. That doesn't match up. So what Texas does, is they arbitrarily define whatever the cut score is for each exam as 70%. That part is understood. But how the percentages change as you move away from 70% is not understood. From what I've heard people say, it doesn't appear to be linear. I assume it's some statistical distribution, but who knows.

Here's an example: In the "Cut Score" thread someone who didn't pass posted that their diagnostics from NCEES said they got 46/80, which is 57.5%. Their Texas provided result said they got a score of 69%. We know 70% is passing, so they were probably pretty close, but because it's weird and nonlinear, we still don't know exactly what the cut score is. (That being said, people like to speculate and to try and figure it out.)



Thank you. This somehow makes some sense. Basically, our exam answer sheet---->Black box 1 (by NCEES)---->Black box 2 (by state boards)----->result! The better you prepare the higher the chance of passing!

 

[Sloth_1989]

More like 350$ for exam. 250$ for another review book. 550$ for another review course....

This is the reason why I'll go broke. 

 

[Tiger15]

Thank you. This somehow makes some sense. Basically, our exam answer sheet---->Black box 1 (by NCEES)---->Black box 2 (by state boards)----->result! The better you prepare the higher the chance of passing!

The only correction I'd make. It's not "state boards"; it's only Texas. No other state adds that extra step. Other states may "review" or "audit" or have a meeting to certify the results before releasing the result. But not other state actually assigns a different score.

That being said. Texas is the only state where you get any info about your performance if you pass. Everywhere else is just limited to "pass". So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ plusses and minuses

 

[WaitingTooLong]

So my friend who did ZERO studying, didn't have a full understanding of the logistics of the exam, and borrowed my binder at the last minute... he failed. So there's that.

He thinks he did well on the 40ish questions that he actually answered. But he ran out of time because he had to look everything up in references that he wasn't familiar with. Also he didn't bring a watch because he assumed there would be a clock. Fun times.

I also didn't bring a watch to my exam and definitely had the "Oh no" moment. Luckily, I was able to reasonably work through the problems in good time and passed!

 

[Tiger15]

I also didn't bring a watch to my exam and definitely had the "Oh no" moment. Luckily, I was able to reasonably work through the problems in good time and passed!

Congrats

 

[HopkinsReb P.E.]

Alright, if the results come out this week, lets try to work out some sort of celebratory meet up.

Anyone else in the DMV?

Let's find a time to do a meet-up...after the holidays.  I'm not gonna have a chance this week and we drive down to Mississippi on Friday.

 

[Adem_5%_Pass]

I don't think I get these explanations but thanks. Anyway, I wish good luck for those fellow gentlemen and gentlewomen who didn't pass. 

Does this, by any chance mean, the pass or fail decision by NCEES may be changed by TBPE? Do you think the pass by NCEES becomes fail (or visa versa) after Texas applies its magic?

 

[Tiger15]

I don't think that's how it work. I think Texas sets their passing "percentage" of 70 to equal the NCEES cut score.

@RBHeadge PE or @Will.I.Am PE thoughts?

 

[RBHeadge PE]

NCEES determines what passes and fails. Their "recommendation" is always adopted by the States. Full stop.

We don't know how the Texas score is derived? Does Texas come up with it? Or does NCEES send it to Texas? We don't know. I don't think we will ever know. We can't learn anything useful from knowing the answers either.

 

[Tiger15]

Someone shared this in a different thread. Very good info...

https://www.nspe.org/resources/pe-magazine/march-2016/the-ultimate-test

 

[Will.I.Am PE]

NCEES determines what passes and fails. Their "recommendation" is always adopted by the States. Full stop.

We don't know how the Texas score is derived? Does Texas come up with it? Or does NCEES send it to Texas? We don't know. I don't think we will ever know. We can't learn anything useful from knowing the answers either.

That first question shouldn't be a question.

Otherwise, what he said.

 

[Ky_Su]

NCEES determines what passes and fails. Their "recommendation" is always adopted by the States. Full stop.

We don't know how the Texas score is derived? Does Texas come up with it? Or does NCEES send it to Texas? We don't know. I don't think we will ever know. We can't learn anything useful from knowing the answers either.

Maybe someone from Texas can show up at the Board's meeting to ask or make a public record request to get the information.

 

[Tiger15]

Maybe someone from Texas can show up at the Board's meeting to ask or make a public record request to get the information.

I suspect that it's related to/similar to this...
from: https://www.nspe.org/resources/pe-magazine/march-2016/the-ultimate-test

MYTH A passing score is 70%.
▼
TRUTH Before results were reported as pass-fail, examinees received scaled scores. The passing raw score (different for each discipline and varying from administration to administration based on difficulty) was “set” at 70, and all scores were scaled accordingly. In 2005, NCEES voted to provide only pass-fail results. Somehow, over time, an urban legend developed and the scaled score of 70 erroneously turned into a 70% raw score being required to pass.

 

[Orchid PE]

Aren't you the guy that's just selling someone else's work?

 

[Michael Scott PE]

Hi all,

I'm selling my School of PE + EET for Civil PE Exam with Structural Depth on eBay. Please use the link below to find my advertisement. I have sold over 10 copies, so I have what I am claiming and my customers so far have been very happy with it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174146908044

Pretty sure this is a big no-no.  

 

[LyceeFruit PE]

Aren't you the guy that's just selling someone else's work?

I think he got banned on his old account so he made a new one to hawk his stuff.

 

[Michael Scott PE]

I think he got banned on his old account so he made a new one to hawk his stuff.

Yep, looks like he was banned again and his eBay profile is gone too.  

 

[Justine]

My apologies for arriving to this party so late. I had no idea that everyone was looking for me and sorry to those of you looking for an entertaining FB page.

I just wanted to take a brief moment to answer some questions from all of my fans and haters.

• Yes, I am the real Justin Stine that some of you have been searching for. However, I refrain from using my all-mighty powers.
  
• I am proud to work with the testing group and they are some of the best people that I know. The majority of us aren't paid a dime for the work that we put into it.
  
• I did not ask for my face to be on the homepage for testing and it has become a funny part of my life's story. I do kind of hate that still shot pic that you click on before the video starts. Couldn't someone have picked a better time to screenshot the video? It is pretty bad, lol. Maybe it is the face before vomit; I don't really remember that day.
  
• Sorry, but I don't grade your exams. I think that there are an army of enslaved robots for that.
  
• I am trying to save the world, but I don't think that the political leaders are listening to me.
  
• Can we have a chat before you throw a coffee at me in public or fight to the death? I just washed these clothes.
  
• It probably isn't necessary to give my picture to the police. People find me everywhere from sports fields, airports, to the zoo. I have no ill will to people's comments of me on here and will happily be the focus of your testing frustration, savior or destroyer of the world, and subject of jokes. I hear some great stories from friends and coworkers about how many of you wish to destroy me and video appearance. Consider it a game of hide and seek if you are looking to release your stress about the exam.
  

I hope all of you did well on the past exam. If it didn't work out, I do encourage you to try taking the exam again. If anyone just wants to take PE exams again for a painful, yet kind of rewarding, experience, I can put you in touch with some people. Good luck out there. Tag; You are it.