Obma Tax plan Explanation

[benbo]

This is a serious question. I am too lazy to search for it.

When Obama says he is going to give a tax cut to everybody making under $200K does that mean I will actually see my marginal rate go down? Or does that just mean he will renew the Bush tax cut for people at my income level?

Because I know that when McCain says he will give us tax cuts he really just means he will make the current tax cuts permanent. I'm not sure what Obama means.

Because when the Bush cuts went into effect I was making a lot less than I do now and even at that level I noticed extra money.

All of this is assuming Obama does what he says he will, and I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that until he does otherwise. And I know he will raise corporate and capital gains, I'm just talking about personal income tax right now.

 

[cement]

there will be big tax cuts when all the small buisnesses close shop and lay off employees. the marginal rate on unemployment is zero.

 

[Flyer_PE]

His claim that he will give a tax cut to 95% of Americans is a pretty interesting claim since 40% of us pay no income tax. In order to make that claim true, he has to be planning on altering the payroll tax structure (social security and medicare). The ceiling for what they are calling the middle class may also be dropping. From 250k/yr, Biden called it $150k/yr, and Bill Richardson called it $120k/yr.

All of Obama's economic ideas have been tried before and they have all had negative economic results. The actions of Hoover and FDR took what would have likely been a normal recession and turned it into a depression. People that complain about an economy with 6% unemployment are in for a real shock when businesses take their capital and move it out of the US.

 

[benbo]

His claim that he will give a tax cut to 95% of Americans is a pretty interesting claim since 40% of us pay no income tax. In order to make that claim true, he has to be planning on altering the payroll tax structure (social security and medicare). The ceiling for what they are calling the middle class may also be dropping. From 250k/yr, Biden called it $150k/yr, and Bill Richardson called it $120k/yr.
All of Obama's economic ideas have been tried before and they have all had negative economic results. The actions of Hoover and FDR took what would have likely been a normal recession and turned it into a depression. People that complain about an economy with 6% unemployment are in for a real shock when businesses take their capital and move it out of the US.

Yes, I know all these arguments. I'm not voting for Obama anyway. I have other reasons , so I wouldn't vote for him no matter what his tax policy.

I am just trying to figure out what he is saying vis a vis my income level - around 100K. Now, assuming he keeps his word, is he saying I will have my taxes reduced, or just retain the current tax level I have. Or haven't we heard any specifics.

Actually, I was hoping an Obamaniac would explain it to me, assuming they know what his policy is. I pretty much know the policy of the guy I'm voting for (McCain), it's pretty simple - keep the Bush income tax cuts and cut the corporate tax level plus a few other little things.

That is the question I'm asking.

 

[frazil]

Well this is straight from his website:

• Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 forworking couples.

• Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families

sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.

• Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create

jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward

investments in innovation.

• Dramatically simplify taxes by consolidating existing tax credits, eliminating the need for millions of

senior citizens to file tax forms, and enabling as many as 40 million middle-class Americans to do their

own taxes in less than five minutes without an accountant.

Under the Obama Plan:

• Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see

their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under

the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan.i

According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle

class families as the McCain plan.ii Indeed, according to the National Review, McCain’s plan “offers

very little in the way of direct benefits to Americans in the middle of the income scale.”

• Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in

the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the taxes they have

received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal

responsibility. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact,

dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut.

• Obama’s plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under

Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP).iii The Obama tax plan is a net tax cut – his tax relief

for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000.

Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary

 

[benbo]

Well this is straight from him website:

Yeah, I've heard this a million times but it still doesn't answer my question. Obama talks about "rolling back" the Bush tax cuts for the top earners. But what will the top marginal tax rate be for someone making around 100K? When he says "tax cut" for that level, does he mean just keeping the Bush tax cut (which is what McCain means), or going even lower. (I also know Obama is fooling with the payroll tax but I am just asking a simple question.)

Here are the current federal income tax rates for somebody with my filing status -

Married Filing Jointly or Qualifying Widow(er) Filing Status

(Tax Rate Schedule Y-1)

10% on the income between $0 and $16,050

15% on the income between $16,050 and $65,100; plus $1,605.00

25% on the income between $65,100 and $131,450; plus $8,962.50

28% on the income between $131,450 and $200,300; plus $25,550.00

33% on the income between $200,300 and $357,700; plus $44,828.00

35% on the income over $357,700; plus $96,770.00

What will the rates be under the Obama plan? Under McCain I believe they will stay the same. It must be out there someplace, but I am too lazy to look. Or is he just saying everybody gets $500? That seems a little implausible.

 

[frazil]

Oh, sorry I misunderstood the question. I was wondering about tax rates too when someone posted the articles about tax cut per income range a while ago. Is this what you're looking for?

Source

 

[Slugger926]

All that is talk about income.

How about Comrade Obama's "Spread the Wealth" program? Where do I submit my name, address, and account information to have America's most wealthy beat the rush, and transfer their wealth to my family and myself? My wife has enough student loans that need to paid off, that we have to be in the Comrade Obama's defined rich income tax bracket to live like we are in poverty. We are in need of the "Spread the Wealth". I would like 5% of Bill Gates, and Warren Buffet's assets transfered to us.

:multiplespotting: :multiplespotting: :multiplespotting:

:unitedstates:

 

[DVINNY]

Obama's campaign has revolved around making the little guy angry because the big guy makes so much money. It just adds to the problem of entitlement that we have in this country.

What Obama's plan doesn't show is how it will raise hidden taxes on ALL 95% of those people he is talking about.

So he's gonna give them $500 bucks back, but they will pay an additional $1,000 in hidden taxes.

When you look at your pay stub, you see the amount of federal income tax withheld and the amount of state income tax withheld (assuming you live in one of the 41 states that tax wages). You also see your share of the payroll tax burden.
Hidden from you, however, is the amount of payroll tax paid on your behalf by your employer. This amount was subtracted from your salary at the outset. When you receive a dividend check or you see the dividend earnings in your mutual fund or pension fund, nowhere listed is the amount of corporate income tax that was subtracted from the value of your investments. When you tally your consumption expenditures at the end of the year, how can you figure the amount of state and local sales taxes paid on your purchases? Do you know how much federal and state beer and wine excise tax you paid, or how much federal telephone excise tax you paid?

 

[benbo]

Oh, sorry I misunderstood the question. I was wondering about tax rates too when someone posted the articles about tax cut per income range a while ago. Is this what you're looking for?

Source

THat's it! Thanks.

 

[frazil]

so what's the deal? How can he say they won't go up when it looks like they do for people in the 20-50K ranges?

 

[Dleg]

^You're right. And, how can the "NAtional Review" and others say that taxes under Obama would be less than under McCain? How reliable is that chart?

But assuming that it is reliable, why is it that people are resorting to playground name-calling? "Socialist" "Communist" "Comrade". I know you are, but what am I?

Give me a freaking break. Look at that table above, then go back and look at tax rates from WWII on up until today. Was Eisnehower really a communist in disguise? If we go by tax rates, Hell yes! Dig that commie bastard out of his grave and let's piss on his red bones!

 

[DVINNY]

Dleg,

it's not about the percent of taxes, but the fact that he wants to take from one class and redistribute to another.

That is where the commie, socialist stuff is coming from.

 

[cement]

I recently heard a quote attributed to socrates that "the downfall of a democracy begins when the electorate discovers it can vote itself money."

 

[Desert Engineer]

I've started calling Obama the "genie" after watching his infomercial. Obama basically found a bunch of hard luck cases and used their stories to say that if you vote for him he will make all your dreams come true. I'm waiting for a commercial that shows him wiggling his nose and nodding his head to improve peoples lives.

 

[frazil]

well, I like Obama and I don't necessarily mind paying more taxes. These percentages are not all that different from each other but I still don't understand how he can say he's giving a tax cut. And if these figures are right why isn't McCain jumping all over it? Or maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

 

[mudpuppy]

Dleg,
it's not about the percent of taxes, but the fact that he wants to take from one class and redistribute to another.

That is where the commie, socialist stuff is coming from.

A progressive tax schedule is almost by definition redistribution of wealth, unless you believe that the people in higher income brackets (and higer tax percetages) somehow benefit more from gov't spending than lower income brackets do.

Given this, I don't see how what you've written refutes what Dleg said. In Eisenhower's time the tax schedules were much, much more progressive (i.e. socialist) than they are now--or than Obama proposes them to be.

 

[Flyer_PE]

A progressive tax schedule is almost by definition redistribution of wealth, unless you believe that the people in higher income brackets (and higer tax percetages) somehow benefit more from gov't spending than lower income brackets do.
Given this, I don't see how what you've written refutes what Dleg said. In Eisenhower's time the tax schedules were much, much more progressive (i.e. socialist) than they are now--or than Obama proposes them to be.

Here's the thing though:

Every time the marginal tax rates have been lowered, income to the treasury has increased. It worked for JFK, it worked for Reagan, and it worked for W. A lowering of the capital gains tax rate has resulted in increased revenue from capital gains tax both times the rate has been lowered.

Using capital gains taxes as an example, lowering the long term rate from 20% to 15% resulted in an increase in revenue to the treasury. Obama has stated in the past that he would like to raise the capital gains tax to 30%. When asked why he would want to raise that tax rate in spite of empirical evidence that it would actually reduce income to the government, his response was to indicate that it wasn't about revenue, it was about "fairness". That statement is pretty telling. He is less interested in the income to the government than he is in taking a larger chunk out of investments that happen to pay off in the pursuit of "fairness".

 

[Dleg]

That's how I think, to, mudpuppy. Any progressive tax scheme could be consisdered a "redistribution of wealth", and today's is much, much less offensive than under Esienhower's & McCarthy's days.

 

[DVINNY]

we can all send a letter to our representatives and tell them to support http://www.fairtax.org