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The way I look at it is if someone wants to pay me 40-50$/hr to pick up dry cleaning or make copies I dont have a problem with that. Its when the pay is low im out the door I dont care what im doing, im there to make big money thats it.

 
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The way I look at it is if someone wants to pay me 40-50$/hr to pick up dry cleaning or make copies I dont have a problem with that. Its when the pay is low im out the door I dont care what im doing, im there to make big money thats it.
I guess proof reader is out of the running then.

 
The way I look at it is if someone wants to pay me 40-50$/hr to pick up dry cleaning or make copies I dont have a problem with that. Its when the pay is low im out the door I dont care what im doing, im there to make big money thats it.
I guess proof reader is out of the running then.
He could proofread text messages or Twitter posts.

 
The way I look at it is if someone wants to pay me 40-50$/hr to pick up dry cleaning or make copies I dont have a problem with that. Its when the pay is low im out the door I dont care what im doing, im there to make big money thats it.
That's exactly what I DON'T want. If you can pay me enough that I'm willing to do anything, that makes me a whore. You own me. That is NOT for me.

I left a job that was going in that direction a couple of years ago. When I turned in my resignation, I was offered a big salary increase to stay. I turned it down. It felt SOOOO good to know that they didn't own me.

 
You guys are missing the point, maybe. I'm making a living, too. It's just that I refuse to stoop to certain things just to make more money.

 
I could say no to certain things, too, but easier work for more money usually isn't one of them.

 
You guys are missing the point, maybe. I'm making a living, too. It's just that I refuse to stoop to certain things just to make more money.
I agree with both sides of this argument, however I am looking at things based on the economic situation at this very moment. If there were abundant opportunities out there, I'm sure I would have different thoughts on the matter. I did mention that I enjoy where I work and what I do, so that affects my thoughts. If I was in a crappy work environment, who knows what I would think.

 
I'm extremely fortunate, too, that I have a good job which I enjoy. I've never been involved in fraud or given sexual favors to advance my position or my paycheck. There are plenty of opportunities. I have to be able to look in the mirror and respect the person I see.

 
I have to be able to look in the mirror and respect the person I see.
Good point. If you don't respect the person you see in the mirror, there's very little chance that anybody else will respect you either.

I learned early on that money is, at best, a temporary salve for doing a job you don't like. I took a substantial pay cut when I left the utility because my personal life is worth more to me than the money I can make in that environment.

 
I guess I don't see a problem with doing what are perceived to be menial tasks, i.e. making copies, filing, etc. I do what it takes to get the projects done and keep the clients happy, if that means I need to go fetch lunch I'm more than happy to do it. If it means I need to drive a golf cart or go help an operator clean a bar screen or pull sludge samples I'm more than happy. Those are character building exercises in my opinion.

I've mentioned this before, but my dad is a veterinarian and from the ages of 10 to 15 I worked at his office, mostly cleaning kennels. It doesn't get much lower than that. But I did a good job and eventually I was given other responsibilities. Eventually I got a job at a hardware store and had to sweep and mop the joint every other night for about 6 months. I did a good job of it and made sure that place was sparkling every night and I was given other responsibilities. I guess that's why I don't have a problem doing menial tasks now.

 
^ I spent three months doign record drawings for a WWTP recently. 300 sheets of nothing but marking up someone's redlines. Hell, just adding 'RECORD DRAWING' to each sheet took a week.

Menial beyond belief, but billable. Entry level CAD tech shoulda been doing it. And when I was going through mech, elec, etc. drawings I was unfamiliar with, I tried to learn something from it. I agree with Chcuk, do what you need to do to keep the client happy. Maybe I'm just used to the small firm mentality of not having a devoted CAD guy or admin to do stuff.

 
I guess I don't see a problem with doing what are perceived to be menial tasks, i.e. making copies, filing, etc. I do what it takes to get the projects done and keep the clients happy,
That wasn't the issue of the OP. The issue was expecting the female engineer to do certain things while not expecting the male engineers to do the same things. That is different.

In a good working environment, everybody should be willing to pitch in to do anything needed. Put toner in the copier, catch the phone, drive clients to the airport. That's not what the OP was about.

Keep in mind however that it doesn't make economic sense to have the expensive person doing things that less expensive folks (admin) can do. If you have admin staff, use them. They need to be billable too.

 
I have to be able to look in the mirror and respect the person I see.
Yeah, I'm a federal subcontractor (consultant). I have trouble looking my fellow taxpayer in the eye sometimes, but not myself.

I'm not really missing your point, I just think I prioritize differently. Some people want some sort of fulfillment from their career, be it the type of work they do, or who they work with or for, or not having to do so-called "menial" tasks. And thats fine, if that fulfillment is important to you. All I'm saying is that my fulfillment comes from the type of lifestyle I can provide for me and my family. Outside of moral and ethical things, I'll do pretty much whatever I need to for money, and I don't feel "owned" at all.

 
Keep in mind however that it doesn't make economic sense to have the expensive person doing things that less expensive folks (admin) can do. If you have admin staff, use them. They need to be billable too.
I've said the following a few times along the way: I can and will do that. However, are you sure you want to pay somebody my rate to do that? Sometimes the answer is yes and that's fine.

 
Somehow I agree on all fronts of this conversation:

I agree:

-that my main objective with my career is to provide an enjoyable lifestyle for me and my family. I do not live to provide grading plans for land developers. It is in my job description to do this work, but I do not wake up every morning with the sole purpose of doing it.

-that everyone should be willing and able to help out others when it comes to menial tasks like copying, answering the phones, etc. But I also agree that if someone is on staff specifically to do those tasks, they should do them, especially if they too need to be billable and they bill at a lower rate. Why should I eat up project budget making copies at $100/hr if we have someone on staff hired to do it at $60/hr? I will make my own copies if it's just a quick few pages, but if there is an hour+ of copies, there are better people on staff to do it.

-that personal tasks need to be done by that person (on personal time). There is no place in the professional workplace to have ANYONE (receptionist, engineer, etc) pick up the boss' dry cleaning. That is unless the boss has hired someone specifically to do that task (in which case I would question the overall office environment I work in).

-that a comfortable workplace is essential to achieve such things as productivity, advancement, good client relationships, and ultimately personal satisfaction.

The above specifically does not address gender, because everything I discuss does not rely upon what's between someones legs. Yes I'm an idealist in thinking that an equal day's work should be met with an equal paycheck.

I feel utilizing your position and/or your gender (yes it goes both ways) to gain an advantage is just wrong. I've seen men use their secretaries as their own personal maid, and conversely, I've seen women use their sexuality to influence the men around them. Neither is appropriate.

 
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I agree with all that too Dex.

To blab a bit more about the economic side of things: from a profitability standpoint, you want everyone in the company working at or near the top of their skill level. I remember working with an administrative lady at a surveying firm who had been with the company over 30 years. She had learned so much over the years that she was able to check legal descriptions and loan surveys. That freed up the PLS down the hall to do other, more profitable things. That's a great example of maximum use of your workforce's skills.

OTOH I knew a P.E. who just didn't want to do much of anything that required work. I had done a floodway analysis for his group (roadway design) and was showing him my hand-drawn plot of the new floodway superimposed on his roadway. He asked me if I'd draw it on a clean copy. I said, "well, I'm kind of busy right now. All you have to do is trace it". He replied (in all seriousness) "That's not in my job description". That kind of non-team-playing really burns my biscuit.

 
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