PE Seal & Stamp

[MadamPirate PE]

Well, yeah, it's still rubber, but I meant like, does apparently everyone use the wooden stamp with a separate ink pad rather than this?

Nah, these are the bad boys we all have in the office. But they are rubber. Which SOME PEOPLE think is a terrible thing. Practical people use these on the regular.

 

[MadamPirate PE]

Keep going with all the the insults! I think I'm finally starting to come around!

You just don't like being told you're wrong.

 

[steel]

Isn't embossing kind of pointless because there's no record of it after you seal the drawings? Like, if you scan an embossed drawing, you wouldn't see the seal, right? Only the signature.

 

[DLD PE]

Well, yeah, it's still rubber, but I meant like, does apparently everyone use the wooden stamp with a separate ink pad rather than this?

Not everyone. Only the narrow-minded, rubber-stamping, disrespected low-lifes use a rubber stamp if you ask Greenie. If you want to be well respected like the grand embosser and the grand embosser's father and his father's father before him, use an embosser.

 

[Orchid PE]

Big difference between the concept of "rubber stamping" and the physical act of using a wooden stamp with rubber seal to sign drawings.

But in addition, there is a well known "PE" in town (I use quotes because I want to insinuate I don't consider him a PE) that uses a rubber type stamp. This is the guy contractors go to when they want something signed without any changes. This PE has had his licensed suspended a few times, but somehow manages to practice. I don't even think he's actually reviewed plans for a few decades. He manages to steal a lot of work because contractors go to him. But maybe those aren't the type of contractors we want to work with anyways.

Isn't embossing kind of pointless because there's no record of it after you seal the drawings? Like, if you scan an embossed drawing, you wouldn't see the seal, right? Only the signature.

All you have to do is rub some lead on it and it will show up. But that's one of the bigger points for using embossing is because it is more difficult to reproduce. We have actually come across contractors taking plans and reproducing my father's seal on documents and submitting for permitting, because the original plans they copied from had to be scanned and we had to rub lead on them. Luckily we caught it after we got a call from the county about needing more info on the designs.

 

[Orchid PE]

Not everyone. Only the narrow-minded, rubber-stamping, disrespected low-lifes use a rubber stamp if you ask Greenie. If you want to be well respected like the grand embosser and the grand embosser's father and his father's father before him, use an embosser.

Exactly.

 

[DLD PE]

Isn't embossing kind of pointless because there's no record of it after you seal the drawings? Like, if you scan an embossed drawing, you wouldn't see the seal, right? Only the signature.

I don't know, but you make a good point. I don't see how it could be scanned and sent to someone who wanted to see a record drawing. They would only see the signature, so it would be difficult to know who actually sealed the drawings.

Also with an embosser, you have to hand press each drawing. With an electronic seal, or rubber stamping a seal and scanning, you can put it in the titleblock and it will show up on however many drawings you want. It's more practical in my opinion.

 

[MadamPirate PE]

I don't know, but you make a good point. I don't see how it could be scanned and sent to someone who wanted to see a record drawing. They would only see the signature, so it would be difficult to know who actually sealed the drawings.

Also with an embosser, you have to hand press each drawing. With an electronic seal, or rubber stamping a seal and scanning, you can put it in the titleblock and it will show up on however many drawings you want. It's more practical in my opinion.

Additionally, the way I do my signing/sealing, if anyone tries to edit the PDF after I've signed/sealed, it "breaks" the signature and is no longer a valid construction drawing.

 

[DLD PE]

Additionally, the way I do my signing/sealing, if anyone tries to edit the PDF after I've signed/sealed, it "breaks" the signature and is no longer a valid construction drawing.

Let's say I put a .png image file on the CAD titleblock of my seal/signature and create a PDF of the drawing. How difficult is it to copy the seal for future use? Is there a way to "break" or corrupt the image in the PDF if someone tried to edit the PDF? I use BlueBeam Revu.

 

[Orchid PE]

Also with an embosser, you have to hand press each drawing. With an electronic seal, or rubber stamping a seal and scanning, you can put it in the titleblock and it will show up on however many drawings you want. It's more practical in my opinion.

But that's kind of the point right? An engineer's seal is supposed to be in their control all the time. They are only supposed to sign/seal stuff they have done or are in control of. Physically sealing each document means the engineer physically touched the paper and has no excuse for not reviewing the contents. In this regard, seal & stamp can physically be in control of the engineer.

Now being able to copy and paste a seal, though more "practical," opens the door for engineers to have their seal placed on documents by draftsmen without actually having to review the documents.

But back to rubber vs embossing, the stigma is still there regardless if we want it to be or not.

 

[Orchid PE]

Let's say I put a .png image file on the CAD titleblock of my seal/signature and create a PDF of the drawing. How difficult is it to copy the seal for future use? Is there a way to "break" or corrupt the image in the PDF if someone tried to edit the PDF? I use BlueBeam Revu.

It's super easy to just copy the seal off a PDF.

 

[Orchid PE]

You just don't like being told you're wrong.

Yeeaaah, I don't think that's what's going on here.

 

[Orchid PE]

But anyone can buy an engineer's seal block online. Same goes with ink stamp or seals. What's to stop someone from getting your name and license number and ordering from one of these online companies? Absolutely nothing. When I passed the exam the first time my dad bought my first seal for me without me even needing to give him any information.

 

[MadamPirate PE]

Let's say I put a .png image file on the CAD titleblock of my seal/signature and create a PDF of the drawing. How difficult is it to copy the seal for future use? Is there a way to "break" or corrupt the image in the PDF if someone tried to edit the PDF? I use BlueBeam Revu.

I put the approval signature item over my seal - so it shows the date/time I sealed it. I also include data such as the client and the project in my digital authorization.

Bluebeam won't let you edit a PDF with a password protected seal authorization on it, and when you print to PDF, it will remove my digital signature. Without the digital signature, the drawings aren't supposed to be used for construction. Could you have unscrupulous contractors, yes, but that's what contracts and client vetting are for.

 

[squaretaper LIT AF PE]

does apparently everyone use the wooden stamp

I got one of these anyway to fill space on my office shelf. Used it once or twice as backup. Mostly it's just a nice-to-have on the shelf.

WOOD: THE ORIGINAL CARBON FIBER baahahahah

 

[MadamPirate PE]

But anyone can buy an engineer's seal block online. Same goes with ink stamp or seals. What's to stop someone from getting your name and license number and ordering from one of these online companies? Absolutely nothing. When I passed the exam the first time my dad bought my first seal for me without me even needing to give him any information.

And anyone can buy an embosser with the same details.

 

[Orchid PE]

And anyone can buy an embosser with the same details.

Absolutely. So if we're talking about security of our seal/stamp/signature/whatever, 100% digital is the way to go.

 

[steel]

Okay, so my thoughts:

1) I don't believe there is a stigma against using an ink seal versus an embossing seal. I've worked for multiple companies that used an ink seal (the self-inking one that goes "kerplunk" when you press it...so satisfying!), but only one engineer I have ever worked for used an embosser. Each and every one of them was just as ethical and great to work for. The type of seal they used made absolutely no difference to their credibility, work ethic, or how I felt about them.

2) Anyone can copy any seal. Do some make it harder? Yes. But there's no way you're going to protect yourself against everyone. We lock our doors at night, but that won't stop anyone from breaking my giant bay window to get inside. It just keeps an honest person honest, but we always need to watch out for the dishonest people, which means (see item 3).

3) There are ways to protect yourself using an ink seal in the digital world. Such as:

I put the approval signature item over my seal - so it shows the date/time I sealed it. I also include data such as the client and the project in my digital authorization.

Bluebeam won't let you edit a PDF with a password protected seal authorization on it, and when you print to PDF, it will remove my digital signature. Without the digital signature, the drawings aren't supposed to be used for construction. Could you have unscrupulous contractors, yes, but that's what contracts and client vetting are for.

All said, if (when) I see that coveted green "pass" box on NCEES in December, I'm getting the self-inking cause, see the nice kerplunk comment above! But I also may get an embossing seal cause they just look freaking incredible!

 

[Orchid PE]

Also, what the hell can of worms did I open for @Orchid PE ??????

Beats me. People just starting ganging up on me because I informed them there is a stigma around using a rubber stamp, and they got upset because they use a rubber stamp.

 

[MadamPirate PE]

Beats me. People just starting ganging up on me because I informed them there is a stigma around using a rubber stamp, and they got upset because they use a rubber stamp.

And I told you there isn't, outside of your personal experience. That it was your experience that there was, but that others have had the opposite experience and not to discount other's own lived experiences.