just graduated, any advice? civil

hey guys i just graduated with a Bachelors in Civil engineering. I am now officially on the job market and having trouble in both sectors because I dont have any experience

But due to no experience I'm having some trouble finding a job. I had a job interview today but they did not like the fact that I haven't done a civil engineering internship. I have have talked to 5-7 companies asking to volunteer my time to learn and have been rejected at every one they said they could not support a volunteer.

I have been accepted to an MS program in civil engineering for spring 2011; it would take 2 years. im thinking about doing it to try to wait out the job market; although i am scared about having a bachelor and masters in civil and graduating in 2012 with no experience. My family says there is no value on education and this is the best time to be in school; it very very hard for an entry level civil engineer right now.

Any advice for a young engineer?

Employers are being picky right now. I suggest trying to find an inspector type job to get your foot in the door. When I was a junior I worked as a soil technician.

I also suggest stearing away from land development since that area is completely saturated with experienced engineers looking for work.

What did you do during the summers of your undergrad? That is when you are supposed to gain the valuable engineering intern experience that helps you get a job when you graduate. I know it's too late to go back and do that now, I'm just curious why you didn't do it.

The masters might not be a bad idea if you make sure to get an internship for 1 or 2 semesters of the program. That will not only help you get in the door of a firm, but it also gets you experience to move on to other firms.

Work on your interviewing skills.

If you talked to 5-7 companies, I am guessing that they saw your resume before you walked in the door and knew that you had no experience. For them to bring that up as an excuse not to hire you would signal to me that you blew the interview and they are looking for an easy way out.

Would also recomend a head hunter looking for you. I know that there are people that have not had good luck with them, but I don't see how it can hurt.

Edit

Also, If you have the time to wait and I willing to relocate, I would also apply for for every federal job that I could find if you have the stomach for it. Their total compensation package is far greater than anything you will find in the private industry.

I recommend looking at a state government job (although I am a chemical engineer so maybe its different). When I got out of school I had a year of coop/internship experience and still couldnt find anything so I took a job with the KY Department of Environmental Protection. The pay was total crap but you get lots of free time off (comp time, sick time, vacation time, plus just about every holiday under the sun) and pretty good bennies. With a year under my belt of working for the state, I was offered a much higher paying job and two years after that I moved into my much much much higher paying job that I have now.

The only issue with this plan these days is that with state budgets in such a mess a lot of states have hiring freezes. It never hurts to try though.

You should go back and kick someone at your school though for not requiring coops/internships. I hated not having summers off but I loved my coop semesters.

FusionWhite said:

I recommend looking at a state government job (although I am a chemical engineer so maybe its different). When I got out of school I had a year of coop/internship experience and still couldnt find anything so I took a job with the KY Department of Environmental Protection. The pay was total crap but you get lots of free time off (comp time, sick time, vacation time, plus just about every holiday under the sun) and pretty good bennies. With a year under my belt of working for the state, I was offered a much higher paying job and two years after that I moved into my much much much higher paying job that I have now.
The only issue with this plan these days is that with state budgets in such a mess a lot of states have hiring freezes. It never hurts to try though.

You should go back and kick someone at your school though for not requiring coops/internships. I hated not having summers off but I loved my coop semesters.

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I was in the same situation as fusionwhite (also chemical), but I'm still with my the state environmental protection agency...just getting paid way more than when I started. States start you off very low, but the benefits are usually really nice.

I'd say work on the masters and keep looking for jobs. You can always scale back the grad school to part time if you find a job.

pavell said:

Any advice for a young engineer?

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1) Buy low, sell high

2) Never play cards with a man named Pops, never eat at a place called Ma's

3) Never say no to a man named Guido

4) Bluebell to place in the fifth.

Join the military, best thing I ever did. You could probably get into civil engineering in the Navy. If you love it, you stay until you get a pension which is something that I'm pretty sure is on the endangered species list these days. If you hate it, you get out when your time is up and employers will come looking for you, even in this economy.

snickerd3 said:

FusionWhite said:

I recommend looking at a state government job (although I am a chemical engineer so maybe its different). When I got out of school I had a year of coop/internship experience and still couldnt find anything so I took a job with the KY Department of Environmental Protection. The pay was total crap but you get lots of free time off (comp time, sick time, vacation time, plus just about every holiday under the sun) and pretty good bennies. With a year under my belt of working for the state, I was offered a much higher paying job and two years after that I moved into my much much much higher paying job that I have now.
The only issue with this plan these days is that with state budgets in such a mess a lot of states have hiring freezes. It never hurts to try though.

You should go back and kick someone at your school though for not requiring coops/internships. I hated not having summers off but I loved my coop semesters.

Click to expand...

I was in the same situation as fusionwhite (also chemical), but I'm still with my the state environmental protection agency...just getting paid way more than when I started. States start you off very low, but the benefits are usually really nice.

I'd say work on the masters and keep looking for jobs. You can always scale back the grad school to part time if you find a job.

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All I can say is never give up on your job search. However, have realistic alternatives (combination of full-time job search, grad school prospects, setting up your own business, changing career etc) with realistic timelines/deadlines and you will be surprised at the level of control you have over your destiny instead of letting this merciless economy and greedy private sector tightwads dictate your life/career. Trust me I have been unemployed for the past 16 months (after finishing my MS Civil/Struct Eng degree) and just when I was getting ready to make a major career switch, a better Civil Eng offer came up. Because of the realistic deadlines I set for myself, I had enough time to think this through before accepting the job offer. Remember, you control your destiny although the system will make you think otherwise. It is not about where you start from but rather, where you are going!

Have you considered construction management? It's a good way to get some related experience even if it's not design.

You can pull up the state list of Civil PE's and send them letters (since phone numbers are generally not listed), thats how I got my job under a PE and tested for my own PE. Join the national civil engineering society (for chemical engineerings its AIChE, not sure what civil is). I hear you with the internships though, internships were harder to get than full time jobs out of school, you were competing with kids that had affluent parents with industry connections or the 4.0 students and all that mess, once out of school thoes factors become less and less so dont let people rag on you about the internships, internships were like finding a gold vein in your back yard accidently with your roto tiller.

I have also heard of people who invent experience to fill in gaps of unemployment and just say it was over seas and the employer is unreachable or that they dont want them to know they are looking for a new job, this would not work well for someone who recently graduated unless you invented an internship but then you would have to come up with a realy creative excuse as to why they could not contact them. If employers want to play games, employees are going to have to play games just to survive.

A masters is a good idea only if you dont have undergrad debt and you dont have to go into debt for the masters and can still maintain some semblance of a quality of life (car, spending money, etc).

ironman said:

I have also heard of people who invent experience to fill in gaps of unemployment and just say it was over seas and the employer is unreachable or that they dont want them to know they are looking for a new job, this would not work well for someone who recently graduated unless you invented an internship but then you would have to come up with a realy creative excuse as to why they could not contact them. If employers want to play games, employees are going to have to play games just to survive.

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I'd be careful referring to this post for ethics advice. It's one thing framing periods of absence from the work force in the best possible light, it's another making up things out of whole cloth.

benbo said:

ironman said:

I have also heard of people who invent experience to fill in gaps of unemployment and just say it was over seas and the employer is unreachable or that they dont want them to know they are looking for a new job, this would not work well for someone who recently graduated unless you invented an internship but then you would have to come up with a realy creative excuse as to why they could not contact them. If employers want to play games, employees are going to have to play games just to survive.

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I'd be careful referring to this post for ethics advice. It's one thing framing periods of absence from the work force in the best possible light, it's another making up things out of whole cloth.

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I agree. I think it's perfectly understandable in this economy to just be straightforward with your unemployment and just say you couldnt get a job.

I also wouldn't recommend cold calling PE's by sending letters to them like ironman suggested. #1 it's a lot of stamps, and #2 a lot of people dont appreciate getting "Please hire me" letters sent to my home from a complete and total stranger. Personally, I don't think that people's home addresses should be listed on their licenses, but maybe there's a good reason for it.

Taking any advice from ironman (rppearso) is not a good idea...especially on ethics or job hunting.

wilheldp_PE said:

Taking any advice from ironman (rppearso) is not a good idea...especially on ethics or job hunting.

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True. His specialties are grammar and spelling.

All im saying is it worked for me. You can also network through your professional society or a local PE society. As far as the unemployment issue, some companies will not hire you unless you currantly have a job, I have read articles on it, there are alot of unscrupulus hiring practices going on right now, and you have to do what you have to do to survive and thrive. If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews. Jobs I have seen before that required 4-5 years experience now require 8 for the same pay AND you must already have a job.

Also if you are old you better lie about your high school graduation date, unless you want to be unemployed for another 12 months, in this economy when you become unemployed your toast, it will likely take you 18 months to find a new job in some far off state or over seas. It is dog eat dog right now. Also making up things for gaps in experience is easier if you already have experience because you know what to make up and what wont get to much attention, after about 4-5 years in any given industry you pretty much know all the lingo have worked every aspect of the business and are just as capable as a 10 year guy, after 4-5 years you are just logging time and grade. You can make up some mundane thing that you did over seas for a brief period that will not attract attention and tell them you dont want them knowing your looking for a job (and have back up references). Making up an internship is probably bad juju because employers will be like wow what was it like what did you learn and it will be nearly impossible to come up with a believable reason as to why they can not contact your internship employer.

Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now you are in no mans land while people are eating each other alive for a good job. If you have to offend a few people sending letters to a personal residence so be it, its not like their mail box is over flowing with letters your letter will probably be their first one, yea its a little steep on the stamps so you have to maybe pick a batch, for me it was easy because there were only 90 PE's of my disipline in the state, still a decent amount of stamps but not insurmountable. You might even be able to apply for welfare or state aid to help pay for things like the stamps or other job hunting tools.

If you can hide out in grad school for a few years without incuring any debt or living on ramen that might be your best bet and then reassess in 2 years, Everything is going to hinge on the Nov elections and what the new gov does regarding NAFTA and in/out/H1visa/illegal immigration sourcing thats what is killing our economy right now.

Make sure you get out and vote for someone other than an incumbant. Another bad round of politicians is going to litterally take food out of our mouths.

ironman said:

If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews.

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That is one hell of an impressive run-on sentence. There are no less than 4 complete sentences worth of misinformation with only one period.

ironman said:

you better lie

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Do we have an over/under on how long it takes before rppearso has a disciplinary action against him with the Alaska state licensure board?

wilheldp_PE said:

ironman said:

If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews.

Click to expand...

That is one hell of an impressive run-on sentence. There are no less than 4 complete sentences worth of misinformation with only one period.

ironman said:

you better lie

Click to expand...

Do we have an over/under on how long it takes before rppearso has a disciplinary action against him with the Alaska state licensure board?

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If you have suggestions that carry weight and produce job results then you should post them and help this guy out, I have done alot of homework and I know what employers are doing in this economy (checking face book pages, etc, which is why I changed my email on my resume and have a professional logo and dont have facebook). This has nothing to do with state boards as we are not talking about stamping anything. Giving general advice is good for long range planning but does not help you keep from being homeless or starving, being unemployed for 12-18 months is not a joke and thats the reality of alot of unemployed people right now, engineers are not immune. Also as a new grad he does not have any real unemployment bennies. I am sorry if some of you are trying to ignore the seriousness of the reality of the economy and this situation but for thoes caught in it its not a joke about run on sentences.

ironman said:

All im saying is it worked for me. You can also network through your professional society or a local PE society. As far as the unemployment issue, some companies will not hire you unless you currantly have a job, I have read articles on it, there are alot of unscrupulus hiring practices going on right now, and you have to do what you have to do to survive and thrive. If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews. Jobs I have seen before that required 4-5 years experience now require 8 for the same pay AND you must already have a job.
Also if you are old you better lie about your high school graduation date, unless you want to be unemployed for another 12 months, in this economy when you become unemployed your toast, it will likely take you 18 months to find a new job in some far off state or over seas. It is dog eat dog right now. Also making up things for gaps in experience is easier if you already have experience because you know what to make up and what wont get to much attention, after about 4-5 years in any given industry you pretty much know all the lingo have worked every aspect of the business and are just as capable as a 10 year guy, after 4-5 years you are just logging time and grade. You can make up some mundane thing that you did over seas for a brief period that will not attract attention and tell them you dont want them knowing your looking for a job (and have back up references). Making up an internship is probably bad juju because employers will be like wow what was it like what did you learn and it will be nearly impossible to come up with a believable reason as to why they can not contact your internship employer.

Getting your first job out of school without the lottery ticket winner/mommy&daddy provided/4.0 internship is no mans land and right now you are in no mans land while people are eating each other alive for a good job. If you have to offend a few people sending letters to a personal residence so be it, its not like their mail box is over flowing with letters your letter will probably be their first one, yea its a little steep on the stamps so you have to maybe pick a batch, for me it was easy because there were only 90 PE's of my disipline in the state, still a decent amount of stamps but not insurmountable. You might even be able to apply for welfare or state aid to help pay for things like the stamps or other job hunting tools.

If you can hide out in grad school for a few years without incuring any debt or living on ramen that might be your best bet and then reassess in 2 years, Everything is going to hinge on the Nov elections and what the new gov does regarding NAFTA and in/out/H1visa/illegal immigration sourcing thats what is killing our economy right now.

Make sure you get out and vote for someone other than an incumbant. Another bad round of politicians is going to litterally take food out of our mouths.

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I agree with you, it's tough out there, but it's not worth lying on your resume about. If/when your employer finds out, that'll definitely get you canned. Once your integrity is questioned about your career, they'll start questioning everything you do or have ever done.

If I got a letter in the mail asking for a job, I'd probably be a little weirded out. What next, a rabbit in a pot? Kinda creepy.

PS - the . key is located right between , and /. It works great and makes your posts legible.

ironman said:

wilheldp_PE said:

ironman said:

If an employer finds out you have been unemployed for any length of time they are going to want to know why and ask all kinds of questions and the interview will quickly become uncomfortable if they dont throw your resume straight in the trash, every one is desperate right now and companies are low balling and are able to afford to do all kinds of wierd things with resume filting and interviews.

Click to expand...

That is one hell of an impressive run-on sentence. There are no less than 4 complete sentences worth of misinformation with only one period.

ironman said:

you better lie

Click to expand...

Do we have an over/under on how long it takes before rppearso has a disciplinary action against him with the Alaska state licensure board?

Click to expand...

If you have suggestions that carry weight and produce job results then you should post them and help this guy out, I have done alot of homework and I know what employers are doing in this economy (checking face book pages, etc, which is why I changed my email on my resume and have a professional logo and dont have facebook). This has nothing to do with state boards as we are not talking about stamping anything. Giving general advice is good for long range planning but does not help you keep from being homeless or starving, being unemployed for 12-18 months is not a joke and thats the reality of alot of unemployed people right now, engineers are not immune. Also as a new grad he does not have any real unemployment bennies. I am sorry if some of you are trying to ignore the seriousness of the reality of the economy and this situation but for thoes caught in it its not a joke about run on sentences.

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Guys, what this new grad is going through is real. These are true stories that you can easily hear being told in everybody's backyard nowadays irrespective of how far you are in your Engineering career. It is good that we are debating this topic by offering advice as well critiquing what others have to say to this new grad. There is a lot of sense in what ironman is saying to a large degree although some portions are questionable.

There is a saying where I come from that goes like this: If you find your neighbor's beard on fire, you better go fetch some cold water and have it ready by your side"; this is because you will never know when a flick from his fire might set your beard on fire.

There are alot of homeless people out there with college degrees, trust me!