I know what you're saying and I agree with both you and ironman that it's tough out there and the job market sucks, but that's still no excuse to lie on your resume or violate people's privacy to get a job. I would argue that the plight of the new grad is far easier than that of someone with experience and got laid off. A new grad doesn't have a mortgage, kids, etc that tie someone to a geographical area, doesn't have a real reason not to work wacky shifts if necessary from a job, and doesn't have the problem of being overqualified for positions. It sucks, but sometimes people just need to lower their expectations for their first job.
just graduated, any advice? civil
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IlPadrino
Well-known member
I should be adding fuel to the fire... but sometimes I can't resist!
What is "unscrupulous" (yeah, you spelled it wrong) about a hiring practice that considered experience or past history? And surely you see the irony of the pot calling the kettle black.
mrt406
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While I agree that his posts are good for entertainment, it would be nice if there could be a disclaimer automatically generated underneath every single one of them.
jmbeck
Well-known member
Don't limit your possibilities. Look at relocations, even in places you don't want to be. It may only be for a short time at worst, and at best you find a place you never imagined you'd be this happy. I think there are a few places in Atlanta, GA that are hiring new grads.
In interviews, don't sell yourself short or apologize for a lack of experience. This is a fine line, because you don't want to sound cocky either. Certainly you have a reason for not accepting/pursuing/receiving an internship in college. If asked, explain succinctly what that reason is. Try to talk to one of your strengths that may offset not typing minutes/learning basic CAD/surfing the internet, because it my experience that is all most companies do with an intern anyway. (Don't bring that up. My point is that most people with an internship didn't gain invaluable experience.)
Never, EVER compromise your character. While they may not be immediate, there are always repercussions. A clear conscious is worth more than a career ever will be. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. I'm looking at you, ironman.
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Chucktown PE
Well-known member
This is pure bullshit. I didn't have a 4.0 when I graduated and I didn't get my job through mommy/daddy.
As a new grad you need to be flexible with location and expectations. You probably aren't going to get your dream job right out of school. But before you start a Master's you should get some work experience. Even 6 months as an intern would be helpful, you need to make sure you like what you're doing before you invest more money in education to do it.
picusld
Well-known member
Agreed. Utter nonsense. There are plenty of jobs out there especially for someone with the right work ethic, personallity, etc...
As an echo to joining the service, I believe that the Jersey Air National Guard has a school loan repayment program as an incentive for enlisting.
Something to consider...
Yea thats true fabricating experience is a tough call, but what do you do when your unemployment is going on 4 months, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months when we all know full well that employers practice unemployment discrimination. Of course fabricating 4 months experience is alot different than fabricating 18 months of experience, so maybe being enrolled for at least 3-6 credits in grad school is the best bet to avoid that conundrum that way you can just say I was in school and 3 credits would be relativly inexpensive so your not going in the hole over it and hope to God you can stay with family.
The mommy and daddy connection was in relation to the internship not your first job, internships are ULTRA competitive (I would say worse than trying to get a meaningful scholarship) so NOT having one under your belt is pretty standard. Most kids dont get internships without some sort of connection or an ultra high GPA (slightly under a 4.0 would probably get you there).
I was wrong about fabricating experience and I apologize for that recommendation, but I would still do everything possible to avoid gaps in employment (go to school, join a mission, peace corps, etc). As far as the national guard it might not be a bad deal if they were not deploying people overseas still (the federal gov has been treating national guard like the reserves for the last 10 years or longer), you could find yourself in a situation you did not bargin for just for some student loan pay offs, you may be paying alot higher balance in terms of quality of life than your student loan ballance (I guess if your student loans were in the 6 figures I could see it). The military is not a job, its a way of life, even if you dont re up your still under contract for 8 years and while they have eased up on the stop loss you need to expect to be in for 8 years.
Unfortunatly for over seas engineering positions that pay the legendary overseas bucks (180-200k) you need at least 10 years experience, but you could look into it.
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I agree, employers will hold that against you, but if you have a situation where a company practices like that, then it's probably not a job you want anyway. If they're a company that does that for new hires, just think of how they screw over employees.
The first job you have out of school is usually the crummy little bitch job, not the ideal dream job that you want. They may flower it up a bit in the job description, but bottom line is you're the junior man and you're going to get all the crap that experienced guys dont want to do. They're also going to look to overload you work wise and under pay you because that's the reality right now. Keep your head down, grind it out, and pay your dues.
No there isent, there are a few jobs out there and for every job opening there are 100's of applicants making the competition more cut throat than ever. It was "tough out there" in 04, this is now the painful transition to 2nd world standards of living, its a whole new game. Until they completely shut down the boarders and ALL free trade this will get worse.
I would say more often than not internships/work experience while in school has nothing to do with mommy/daddy or GPA. I know of plenty of people who got relevant work experience while they were in school and it had nothing to do with their GPA or parents. However, maybe my situation was slightly different as my college stressed heavily the importance of gaining work experience before graduating. Internships are out there for students, if they are willing to look and work for them. To get one you have to treat the process as though you were looking for full-time work. A lot of students don't have the drive to do that.
That said, it still doesn't help the OP. Jobs are going to be more difficult to come by right now, I don't believe that is b/c companies are plotting against perspective employees, I think it's purely a function of supply and demand rather then a corporate conspiracy. In many cases companies are not looking to hire new employees, which leaves a surplus of perspective employees out their for them to choose from when a company does want to hire. This means that company can be more choosy about the candidate they select and they can offer them less compensation then they would in a more competitive market.
In a sea of other perspective employees the only way a person is going to get hired over everyone else is to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack. You have to stand out. How you go about that will vary from situation to situation, but you have to figure out what is going to get you noticed (in a positive way) and do that.
P.S. - ironman, perhaps you could help pavell out. If he gets his pilots license you could hire him as your pilot.
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Close the borders? WTF does that have to do with the current lack of engineering jobs? How many illegals do you see with degrees?
Yep I agree, BUT dont expect your dues to ever be paid. The new reality we are approaching is hard work and low pay in order to compete with the 2nd and 3rd world, this has nothing to do with "paying your dues" in the traditional sense of working in the mail room and working your way up, now days you can rot in the mail room, this is the new reality we all need to get used to. Unless you have some extra ordinary skill or patent as well as a ton of money to hold out this is the new USA .
They bring alot of people over from india with supposed "degrees" on H1 Visas, also I see alot of people comming through canada because they have lax immigration policies. I see work being farmed out to califonia to office's full of H1 visa workers from india and asia and managers from canada. The mexican boarder just creates high crime rates which is a different issue.
I believe companies lobbyed for things like NAFTA and other overseas free trade agreements because they knew it would create a glut of people trying to complete with overseas workers and "engineers" thus driving wages down and taking competetion for jobs to an unhealthy level. I dont think anyone realizes how close this nation is to revolution, everyone is hoping for the Nov elections to clean this mess up otherwise we are in way more trouble than some of you seem to realize and seem to be glossing over how serious these competition issues are, after all if things degrade so far competition really reduces to how well you can dodge bullets and return fire. You just hope that you have enough resources that you dont have to be part of the group that is forced to fire the first shots but that you dont have so much that you are a target. I was just reading an article that nearly 50% of america is on some sort of public assistance, and the filthy rich want to pull thoes programs out in the name of "small gov" while at the same time shafting everyone out of jobs and good wages. How do you think thats going to end when 50% of the US population is faced with the prospect of homelessness and/or starving once thoes programs are ended because corporations want to pick and choose workers and pay bottom dollar.I would say more often than not internships/work experience while in school has nothing to do with mommy/daddy or GPA. I know of plenty of people who got relevant work experience while they were in school and it had nothing to do with their GPA or parents. However, maybe my situation was slightly different as my college stressed heavily the importance of gaining work experience before graduating. Internships are out there for students, if they are willing to look and work for them. To get one you have to treat the process as though you were looking for full-time work. A lot of students don't have the drive to do that.
That said, it still doesn't help the OP. Jobs are going to be more difficult to come by right now, I don't believe that is b/c companies are plotting against perspective employees, I think it's purely a function of supply and demand rather then a corporate conspiracy. In many cases companies are not looking to hire new employees, which leaves a surplus of perspective employees out their for them to choose from when a company does want to hire. This means that company can be more choosy about the candidate they select and they can offer them less compensation then they would in a more competitive market.
In a sea of other perspective employees the only way a person is going to get hired over everyone else is to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack. You have to stand out. How you go about that will vary from situation to situation, but you have to figure out what is going to get you noticed (in a positive way) and do that.
P.S. - ironman, perhaps you could help pavell out. If he gets his pilots license you could hire him as your pilot.
I guess it makes more sense to joke about it and play it off as normal job competition that way you can sleep at night, I just think about my E&M class for my MS and hang out with my fiance as God has blessed me but this nation is a ticking time bomb.
you sure you aren't holed away in some little cabin writing a manifesto?
edit: and this from the same person who thinks that if you aren't making six figures as an engineer you may as well be digging ditches for a living.
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wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
I know that several members of this forum have changed jobs in the last couple of years, some were forced to, some were not. Others have been interviewing and getting job offers just as bargaining chips to secure raises with their current employers. I, for one, have changed jobs twice since the Great Recession started, the most recent of which was June of this year. I think you just might be getting passed over for positions due to lack of intelligence, sense of entitlement, and/or lying on your resume/interviews. You like to point the finger at the economy, illegal immigrants and elsewhere, but you never seem to point the finger at yourself.
Work visas are part of the global economy. There's nothing illegal or wrong about it. There's plenty of Americans working abroad as well.
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