How do you lose a 777?

[Dleg]

One of those articles also mentioned that many of the passengers' cell phones ring when called. Does anyone here know enough about cellular phone communications to know if that means anything? I seem to recall not getting a ring, or some sort of "out of service area" message when I call someone whose phone is not turned on.

This is turning out to be one hell of a mystery.

As for satellites, I may not know much, but I am taking a remote sensing course right now where we are learning about the capabilities of commercial imaging satellites. None of them provide "real time" images in high enough resolution to search for debris. The high spatial resolution satellites like QuikBird and Ikonos travel in polar orbits, and fast. They pass by the same spot on the earth on the order of every 5-18 days or so, depending on the particular orbit and imaging (side-looking) capabilities. Theoretically, if cloud-free images were available of the entire area, "change detection" between today's image and last week's could be employed, and detect a crash site. But it would also detect about a million other things, so I'm not so sure that would be helpful.

The "real time" satellites, in geosynchronous orbit, are so far away that it is extremely unlikely they would have the resolution to detect the plane or its crash, unless they just happened to be focused on that area with a magnified view. Or if there is some super-secret tech that allows trillion-by-trillion pixel images, which also seems unlikely, and I think the plane would have been "found" by now, anyway, if something like that existed.

 

[envirotex]

Was it on a treadmill?

 

[wilheldp_PE]

One of those articles also mentioned that many of the passengers' cell phones ring when called. Does anyone here know enough about cellular phone communications to know if that means anything? I seem to recall not getting a ring, or some sort of "out of service area" message when I call someone whose phone is not turned on.

I think that the cell phones ringing indicates that they aren't underwater at the very least. Most electronics of any type stop working in a hurry when submerged while energized. Also, water of significant depth (a few meters) will attenuate a cell signal unless there is an underwater tower nearby.

Then again, I don't know how Asian cell phone networks handle calls to inactive devices. In America, they go straight to voicemail, but Asian infrastructure might just send a ringtone to the caller while it searches for the device. That was the explanation with the other anomaly that a lot of the passengers were still signed into their QQ accounts (instant messaging service in Asia). The company that owns QQ issued a statement that unless the user had signed out of their last session, it may still show them as online.

 

[Dleg]

Wow - this is getting very interesting now. I just saw a CNN story, that Malaysian military radar tracked the plane for over an hour after its transponder turned off. It turned completely around, flew all the way back across Malaysia, and then "disappeared" in the Molucca straight. They don't say if the radar data says the plane went down, or just flew out of radar range.

Someone also pointed out that the point at which the turn-around occurred, was right when the air traffic control should have been handed off between Malaysia and Vietnam, which they said would be a perfect time for someone to attempt such a "disappearance".

This is starting to sound more and more like terrorism to me. I hope the plane turns up at an airport somewhere with everyone alive...

 

[Road Guy]

And they just showed pictures girls had taken with pilots inside the cockpit while it was in the air. Which is a no no. So obviously they are operating a different level of discipline than other pilots would practice....

Agreed if love to see all these people alive somewhere...

 

[Capt Worley PE]

One of those articles also mentioned that many of the passengers' cell phones ring when called. Does anyone here know enough about cellular phone communications to know if that means anything? I seem to recall not getting a ring, or some sort of "out of service area" message when I call someone whose phone is not turned on.

depends on the carrier. How the ring behaves when phone is off/out of signal is set at the carriers servers. From what I understand, different carriers handle it different ways.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1445563/unanswered-questions-behind-disappearance-malaysia-airlines-flight-370

Number 8 is rather interesting...I didn't know that.

 

[Dleg]

^ the fact that Boeing and the engine manufacturer track all planes and get telemetry real-time? I didn't, either, but I read it earlier in the week's coverage, with respect to the Air France crash in 2009. Apparently Airbus had received several detailed telemetry transmissions as the plane went down. But they also shared this info, pretty much right after it went missing, IIRC. In this case, if such data existed, I think it would have been announced already.

I would guess that the telemetry, in all cases, is transmitted using the same system on the airplane. So if someone were to turn it off, or a catastrophic failure occurred which wiped out the electronics, that telemetry would cease. Which seems to be the case here.

CNN is reporting potential debris found in Chinese satellite imagery the day after the crash, in more or less the same location where the plan disappeared. Search assets have been directed to that location, so maybe we will be an answer soon. Not a good one, if that's the case.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

^Well, today there's this:

The Wall Street Journal said that U.S. aviation investigators and national security officials believed the Boeing 777 flew for a total of five hours, based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from its Rolls-Royce Trent engines as part of a standard monitoring program.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140313

 

[YMZ PE]

^ Malaysian officials are denying this.

There seems to be a clusterf of conflicting reports. It's like Malaysia isn't used to being in the international spotlight, so the leaders are scrambling to try to control the flow of information like they're used to doing locally. That doesn't work so good when you have journalists from all over the world investigating the story.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

^ Malaysian officials are denying this.

I wouldn't trust the Malaysian government as far as I could throw it. I'd believe Rolls Royce over them any day.

Edit: I don't mean that with my typical tinfoil hat, distrust the government thing either. Malaysian government, IIRC, seems to be in a contest between the forces of ineptitude and the forces of corruption to see who can be fastest to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[Road Guy]

Wouldn't there be evidence of social media updates and texting emails with me every major plane out there has some type of Wi-Fi access people can buy into that may be able to trace back last communications with family members that were on the plane?

Or is a Malaysian airline a lot like riding mass transit in South America where everyone carries a goat or pig on board?

 

[mudpuppy]

^Most international planes don't have wi-fi on board. The wi-fi relies on cell towers on the ground that are pointed up toward the sky, basically. This doesn't work well over water, so they don't bother installing the wi-fi capability on these larger planes.

Some airlines are starting to install satellite-based wifi, but I doubt Malaysia airlines will be an early adopter.

 

[Road Guy]

Ok that makes sense... The only international flights I have taken were on a plane with a C- designation in front Of their names...

c-141,C-5, etc... And that was Pre wi-fi.... And long ass trips....

Just hope they find the plane soon so the families can say goodbye.....

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I did some work on the comfort pallets on those things many moons ago. The coffeemaker cost something like $5K, mainly because of cash safety requirements.

 

[Supe]

The other thing about Wifi that I was told from an airline stewardess - most of the retrofitted planes will have Wifi or TV screens, not both. Apparently, the equipment/cabling and associated weight were factored in for one system, but couldn't support the two of them and be cost effective.

 

[Dark Knight]

Maybe the Chinese are testing a new weapon.

 

[mudpuppy]

The other thing about Wifi that I was told from an airline stewardess - most of the retrofitted planes will have Wifi or TV screens, not both. Apparently, the equipment/cabling and associated weight were factored in for one system, but couldn't support the two of them and be cost effective.

I think their ultimate plan is to stream entertainment via wifi so people can still pay them for movies and watch on their own tablets. Saves them the money of installing personal TVs. In fact, United announced something along these lines today: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57620265-37/apple-devices-said-to-get-free-in-flight-movies-on-united/

 

[Dleg]

Malaysian airlines is kind of seen as a luxury airline out here. And the stewardesses are hot.

But yeah, I would think that if the plane had turned around and flown back over Malaysia, someone on board would have attempted a text or phone call as they passed over the ground-based cellular networks (would that work?).

Still, the news that the White House has ordered searchers to the Indian Ocean is interesting..... take a look at the globe. Passing over the Indian Ocean opens up all kinds of (bad) possibilities for nefarious destinations.

 

[Flyer_PE]

All I know about cell reception in aircraft is that I can send the occasional text message but that's about all at anything over 4000ft.