What grade do you give the Engineering Community for Diversity?

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I really think it behooves us all (all being mainly white people, which I know is definitely not everyone here on EB) to do our best to educate ourselves and question how we have been looking at society.

I sure as heck know that over the course of the past month, my view of society has definitely shifted, and I intend to become a lifelong learner of the racial injustices in this country.

Audi, I don't know that we will ever agree on this. But, what you're saying is making me think you can't see the forest for the trees. An "engineering meritocracy" cannot be separated entirely from the society in which it exists. Such a meritocracy is entirely informed  by the broader society, in which it exists.

 
Is the disadvantage is that no one batted an eye that you wanted to attend college and get a technical degree? 

When there isn't a special group for you, it's because your group has always had the upper hand. 

Yesterday I was on a video call with 51 people and four of us were women. The main people driving the conversation were white males. When we're in person, they dominate the conversation. I have frequently experienced in that group those same men discounting my expertise and calling me sweetie and asking me where to find the snacks. This is a national committee of engineers. 

So forgive me if I'm not buying your disadvantage. 
I definitely know what it feels like to have folks discount your experience and to have folks dominate a meeting. I'd definitely help you fight those battles even if we disagree and even if you're completely willing to dismiss my perspectives.

 
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The question for is about engineering as a career choice/job/community.  I think of it as "If two (or more) equally qualified candidates exist for a position or assignment, does the engineering community have a bias when picking the successful person?"  Or "Are certain people favored when performing engineering work?"  I have not personally witnessed (qualifier: in my own limited experience) racism or sexism as our society defines it today.

Earlier posts regarding the education system that funnels into the engineering field make sense to me.  It would be irresponsible to give engineering work to someone who is not qualified on a technical basis--hence engineering requires the meritocracy system which has already been referenced.  If there is a systemic problem in our field, the education (K-12) is where it starts.  And that systemic problem does not just feed into the engineering field.  It is a societal problem.

I give the engineering community a C+.

 
I have frequently experienced in that group those same men discounting my expertise and calling me sweetie and asking me where to find the snacks.
I completely empathize with you. What would be the appropriate way to address women in general, professional, formal, and casual settings? 

 
I'm not going to even go into the amount of unsolicited dick pics I've been shown/sent by contractors or some of the shit spoken to me while I was working on sites.  It's not worth it to even fight it, because they're "field guys" and "it gets rough" and "we do a lot of work with that drilling company, don't rock the boat".
I can't imagine how you must feel. At the time were you able to report to your HR? How did you handle it?

 
My rules of conduct are to treat all women the same way I want my wife and two daughters to be treated.
All I want is professionalism, with respect for my qualifications, training, and experience.

As I joke with my friends who get frustrated with a racist, sexist society and who may or may not even send in their applications to jobs, because they lack the self-confidence and wonder if they're "good enough" for the standards of the mainstream meritocracy: "What would a mediocre white man do?"

If your competence is always questioned you begin to doubt yourself.

Here's a really good story about what happened when a male coworker signed email with his female coworker's name. I promise you both his and her perspective are worth a read. This is so true it's painful.

 
...

As I joke with my friends who get frustrated with a racist, sexist society and who may or may not even send in their applications to jobs, because they lack the self-confidence and wonder if they're "good enough" for the standards of the mainstream meritocracy: "What would a mediocre white man do?"

If your competence is always questioned you begin to doubt yourself.

...
Yeah, impostor syndrome affects a lot of people, but can be particularly bad among women and minorities.

 
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As I joke with my friends who get frustrated with a racist, sexist society and who may or may not even send in their applications to jobs, because they lack the self-confidence and wonder if they're "good enough" for the standards of the mainstream meritocracy: "What would a mediocre white man do?"
I need this on a coffee mug. 

 
Ok, I've held off on posting here for a little while on this subject, but here goes.

I used to completely identify with Morgan Freeman when he said that the solution to the race problem is to "stop talking about it" (This, to me, sounds a lot like the "I don't see color" mantra that's floating around lately). I think I now both agree and disagree with these types of statements; I agree in the sense that I should not treat anybody differently, in any sense, just because they are of a certain race or ethnicity (or gender, to pull that into the discussion). I no longer agree in the sense that we should simply ignore our differences or look past the systemic racism that exists. I honestly think these are two entirely separate issues, but are often taken to be one in the same (especially right now).

As a white male in a predominantly white geographic region, I do often find it difficult to see the struggles that people that are not my race (or gender) experience. If there's one thing these past few weeks have helped me realize, it's that I'm not the only person "in the room," and the struggles that exist are very real and often overlooked (if not outright dismissed) by people in my race/gender. To be sure, it has been an eye-opening experience, and I feel like I can start making changes in my personal behavior to help bridge that gap. Maybe that won't completely solve the systemic issues in our society, but I feel like it's at least a first step.

In terms of the engineering community's grading on diversity...I think we need to be sure to quantify the assessment a little more. Are we talking about hiring? Lack of harassment? Opportunity for advancement? I think the grade is different based on which you are talking about. For each of those categories, and from my limited perspective (obviously, I haven't worked everywhere, so I can't give an accurate score for the entire community), I think I'd give the following grades:

In terms of hiring, I would say the community gets a B/B-. Like others have said, I think the engineering community does a good job of hiring people based on whether they can do the job, regardless of the race or gender of the person in question. A lack of hires seems to point to a systemic issue elsewhere (probably higher education, like others have suggested).

In terms of lack of harassment, I would say the community as a whole gets a C- at best.

In terms of opportunity for advancement, I would say the community as a whole gets a D at best.

It's really difficult to quantify some of these, not just because I have a limited perspective, but also because a lot of these issues are invisible and difficult to prove. In light of these, my ratings are also influenced by what everyone else on this board has already said. So to all, thanks for helping me see some of these invisible issues. It is helpful.

 
How would you address a man in that situation? 
It depends on the situation and context (e.g. body language, tone, aesthetic-perhaps these men like what they see, or maybe their digging your style,  and most men can see through your bones, etc.). 

You said these men dominate the conversation, discounting your experience, and in person they dominate the conversation and calling you sweetie. The way I would address it is to preemptively refute in  middle of the conversation, not in the beginning because that will put you in a defensive posture. Another way is  to change your mindset immediately and in your internal thoughts would be like: 1) OK mo$her$uc&e#! I got this. I'm gonna refute somewhere in the conversation , or 2) OK mo$her$uc&e#, I love this, or 3) OK mo$her$uc&e#, I am the GOAT. Also, to be less agreeable in that situation will work. You get my point @csb.

Very Respectfully Yours,

Dean

 
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