Which choice is best (EE/ME/CE) to get qualifying experience?

[corvinus]

Which of EE/CpE, ME, or perhaps CE is most likely to lead to a job working under a PE, so that I can become licensed?

I own apartment buildings in a Northern NJ municipality which requires a PE or architect to stamp building permits, and want to handle this myself.

I hold a BSCS (with statistics minor) and am working on HVAC and Building Automation certificates. I've completed all the ABET-required undergraduate math and science necessary for EE, two electrical engineering courses, and a course in PLCs. Currently I'm looking into less-costly BS programs both in-person (Rowan) and online EE/CpE (SBU, MSU, ODU), but also ME (UAl). I have a decade of engineering-irrelevant experience in business development.

If it weren't for the need to get a job working under a PE, I'd go with CpE out of interest in the subject; but my goal is the PE license. I'm sure I'd be satisfied working in Revit for 3 years, or doing PLC or SCADA programming, or working in building systems integration, while completing a master's.

What I fear is graduating, then not finding a job which offers qualifying experience. I will not leave NJ/NYC for family reasons.

Any advice? Any advice about where to get advice?

 

[RBHeadge PE]

One doesn't simply roll out of bed one morning and decide to get a PE license. It's a years long path that requires full time attention and dedication to the profession. The four year experience requirement is working full time under a PE or similarly qualified engineer, and doing actual engineering.

Given your position, it will just be easier to hire an engineer or architect, as applicable, to stamp your drawings. And whoever does the stamping needs to be competent in whatever it is they are stamping.

With all that typed, from your list - PEs are most common in civil engineering, followed by mechanical and then electrical/power. You won't find many computer engineers with PEs.

 

[Hamilton_PE]

To follow up on the previous response, if you want to stamp structural drawings for a building permit, you will need minimum 4 years (sometimes 3) working full time (or more years working part time) under a licensed PE working on structural drawings. If this is a career that you are wanting to pursue, find a job working for a structural engineering company (maybe learn some drafting to get your foot in the door). If you are just wanting an easy way to get permits but your career is in real estate, it will be 10000000000 times easier and cheaper just to pay someone else to do the job.

 

[corvinus]

One doesn't simply roll out of bed one morning and decide to get a PE license. It's a years long path that requires full time attention and dedication to the profession. The four year experience requirement is working full time under a PE or similarly qualified engineer, and doing actual engineering.

Given your position, it will just be easier to hire an engineer or architect, as applicable, to stamp your drawings. And whoever does the stamping needs to be competent in whatever it is they are stamping.

With all that typed, from your list - PEs are most common in civil engineering, followed by mechanical and then electrical/power. You won't find many computer engineers with PEs.

Thanks, I've just been admitted to an EE program.

 

[corvinus]

To follow up on the previous response, if you want to stamp structural drawings for a building permit, you will need minimum 4 years (sometimes 3) working full time (or more years working part time) under a licensed PE working on structural drawings. If this is a career that you are wanting to pursue, find a job working for a structural engineering company (maybe learn some drafting to get your foot in the door). If you are just wanting an easy way to get permits but your career is in real estate, it will be 10000000000 times easier and cheaper just to pay someone else to do the job.

Thanks, I think drafting is a good idea. I had two CAD courses years back, have used FreeCAD intermittently since, and have ordered a book on Revit.

 

[Reverse Polish]

Which of EE/CpE, ME, or perhaps CE is most likely to lead to a job working under a PE, so that I can become licensed?

I own apartment buildings in a Northern NJ municipality which requires a PE or architect to stamp building permits, and want to handle this myself.

I hold a BSCS (with statistics minor) and am working on HVAC and Building Automation certificates. I've completed all the ABET-required undergraduate math and science necessary for EE, two electrical engineering courses, and a course in PLCs. Currently I'm looking into less-costly BS programs both in-person (Rowan) and online EE/CpE (SBU, MSU, ODU), but also ME (UAl). I have a decade of engineering-irrelevant experience in business development.

If it weren't for the need to get a job working under a PE, I'd go with CpE out of interest in the subject; but my goal is the PE license. I'm sure I'd be satisfied working in Revit for 3 years, or doing PLC or SCADA programming, or working in building systems integration, while completing a master's.

What I fear is graduating, then not finding a job which offers qualifying experience. I will not leave NJ/NYC for family reasons.

Any advice? Any advice about where to get advice?

I think it's important for you to know that--assuming you complete your engineering education and obtain licensure as a Professional Engineer--you are legally responsible for everything to which your seal is applied. In some states, this means you are also *personally* liable for anything that bears your professional seal. In other words, if you're just looking for a quick and inexpensive way to satisfy permitting requirements, you are going down the wrong path.

It's also worth noting that a Professional Engineer has a responsibility to only practice in their area of competency, that is, their area of education and experience. Your tack might be adequate for obtaining electrical permits, but as soon as you seal mechanical, plumbing, or (God forbid) structural drawings, the state board can now bring charges against you.

In short, what you propose to do is extremely serious and quite frankly, you don't know what you don't know. Most of us on these forums dedicate a lifetime to learning our chosen profession. I don't see that your treatment of engineering as (at worst) an inconvenience or (at best) a hobby is in anyone's interest.

Best of luck.

 

[corvinus]

Engineers' self-monitoring of the profession via state boards, ABET, and even informal conversation is the basis of maintaining the high quality of engineering the modern world is built on.

I do not believe engineering is a hobby, or permitting an inconvenience.

I'm aware of the requirements and responsibilities associated with completing school, obtaining licensure, and entering into practice, and look forward to it.

 

[Reverse Polish]

Engineers' self-monitoring of the profession via state boards, ABET, and even informal conversation is the basis of maintaining the high quality of engineering the modern world is built on.

I do not believe engineering is a hobby, or permitting an inconvenience.

I'm aware of the requirements and responsibilities associated with completing school, obtaining licensure, and entering into practice, and look forward to it.

Your stated motivation suggests otherwise. Even with completing school, obtaining the necessary experience, and successfully passing the PE exam (a Herculean effort in itself), that still leaves you with needing to obtain an engineer to sign/seal drawings for mechanical, plumbing, and structural components. I'm not trying to poo on your parade, but rather impress upon you the seriousness of this profession.

Your initial question--which branch of engineering will mostly likely lead to the necessary experience to obtain a PE license--shows that you are not entirely serious, and that you're more interested in having a professional seal than any real desire to perform engineering. People get hurt or killed when engineers--even experienced, licensed engineers--practice beyond the scope of their expertise.

 

[Lumber Jim]

Story time...

Last year I had to have some survey work done to straighten out some property lines that benefitted both my neighbor and me. It was a bit complicated where we needed to trade equal areas and, with my Engineering background, I volunteered to figure it out and so my neighbor put me in charge because I could lay it out in CAD. He and the county board were happy with everything I determined and both had given approval because it was well presented and equal to or better than what anyone else in the profession would have done after starting with the same map data that they officially use as a starting point. (I was within 0.6 square inches to the neighbors benefit) All I needed to do was add my stamp, submit, and it would have been accepted.

Except I wouldn't. I'm not a surveyor, land boundaries are not something I do as a Mechanical Engineer, and is therefore officially outside of my area of expertise even though the geometry work is something I do everyday in CAD. It felt like I would be operating on the wrong side of ethics, and it felt like future liability that I didn't want so we found someone that could do it in a professional capacity that was also a surveyor. I submitted my work in an effort to save him some time since it was already informally approved, he double checked what I sent to save some time and cost to us in developing the new property line drawings and descriptions for the county, and we paid him. Everything turned out great!

Moral of the story.... Even though you can, and could get away with it doesn't mean you should... my hope is that you recognize this along your journey toward becoming a P.E.

 

[corvinus]

Clearly I've set off some alarm bells.

Property lines strike me as something quite serious. Reverse Polish seems to have things in mind which are also quite serious, although he does not specify what. I don't understand the quickness to assume rashness on my part.

Based on looking at the code relevant to 4-family properties and speaking to code officials, I believe my municipality requires me to pull permits for:
-changing toilets
-replacing water heaters
-hiring a company to install a window well per the manufacturer's instructions
-hiring a plumber to replace an old tub
-hiring an electrician to run a new electrical line
-hiring an HVAC technician to replace a furnace
-installing a dishwasher

I find policy requiring an engineer for these tasks questionable; surely skilled technicians know their trades? I'm open to arguments otherwise, but either way I respect that others with much greater knowledge than mine have convinced legislators to make things this way.

My desire to abide by code was the motivation of my question. Many (most?) multifamily home-owners and contractors simply ignore permitting in cases like these, since it puts us in financially unworkable situations (my rents are well below the state average, which I tolerate since the tenants are decent people).

If engineers had the same pro-bono spirit as many lawyers have, other solutions might be available than either evicting construction workers and immigrant families in favor of the kind of people I do not want to live around ("young professionals"); selling to Blackrock, who will do the same; or gaining the knowledge, experience, and licensure which allows me to address problems, in full accordance with regulation. I already carry $500k liability insurance and a basic state license just so I can make minor repairs myself.

I'd caution Reverse Polish to not mistake a part for a whole: my initial question was not motivated by my interest in engineering, which has gradually evolved into retrofitting 19th-century homes with appropriate HVAC and building automation systems. This is what I'm already halfway through a college certificate program studying, and it is with the encouragement of professors in it (mechanical engineers) that I decided to apply to engineering programs.

It seems to me combining my BSCS with a BSEE (and potentially future grad study) would be a useful combination for doing meaningful, interesting, practical work improving our built heritage and benefiting communities.

I was blindsided by the response before, but am open to any advice or criticism.

 

[Reverse Polish]

Clearly I've set off some alarm bells.

Property lines strike me as something quite serious. Reverse Polish seems to have things in mind which are also quite serious, although he does not specify what. I don't understand the quickness to assume rashness on my part.

Based on looking at the code relevant to 4-family properties and speaking to code officials, I believe my municipality requires me to pull permits for:
-changing toilets
-replacing water heaters
-hiring a company to install a window well per the manufacturer's instructions
-hiring a plumber to replace an old tub
-hiring an electrician to run a new electrical line
-hiring an HVAC technician to replace a furnace
-installing a dishwasher

I find policy requiring an engineer for these tasks questionable; surely skilled technicians know their trades? I'm open to arguments otherwise, but either way I respect that others with much greater knowledge than mine have convinced legislators to make things this way.

My desire to abide by code was the motivation of my question. Many (most?) multifamily home-owners and contractors simply ignore permitting in cases like these, since it puts us in financially unworkable situations (my rents are well below the state average, which I tolerate since the tenants are decent people).

If engineers had the same pro-bono spirit as many lawyers have, other solutions might be available than either evicting construction workers and immigrant families in favor of the kind of people I do not want to live around ("young professionals"); selling to Blackrock, who will do the same; or gaining the knowledge, experience, and licensure which allows me to address problems, in full accordance with regulation. I already carry $500k liability insurance and a basic state license just so I can make minor repairs myself.

I'd caution Reverse Polish to not mistake a part for a whole: my initial question was not motivated by my interest in engineering, which has gradually evolved into retrofitting 19th-century homes with appropriate HVAC and building automation systems. This is what I'm already halfway through a college certificate program studying, and it is with the encouragement of professors in it (mechanical engineers) that I decided to apply to engineering programs.

It seems to me combining my BSCS with a BSEE (and potentially future grad study) would be a useful combination for doing meaningful, interesting, practical work improving our built heritage and benefiting communities.

I was blindsided by the response before, but am open to any advice or criticism.

It's not a question of your desire to abide by code; any engineering and construction work is required by law to conform with the prevailing building code. If your locality is requiring permits, it's serious. If your locality is requiring signed/sealed engineering drawings to obtain those permits, it's very serious. Again, it's a question of "You don't know what you don't know". The best example I can think of is, all the lay people who barely made it through high school algebra, but are suddenly experts in structural engineering when it comes to the Key Bridge or World Trade Center collapses. Are you going to trust those people with your life, or are you going to trust people who have relevant education and experience?

Now, I know you're not as obliviously ignorant as the peak of the Dunning-Kruger curve, and that your intentions are good. But every engineer needs to know his or her limitations, even within his/her chosen field. If your background is in computer science / electrical engineering, are you willing to accept responsibility for illnesses that your tenants contract due to mold resulting from an undersized or improperly installed HVAC unit?

And sure. Most contractors know their trade--but that doesn't mean they know a lick about engineering. I've seen some excellent concrete subs - but I seriously doubt they understand the mathematical underpinnings of elastic foundations. I always tell young engineers, "A contractor might have a pretty good idea of what will work. An engineer can mathematically prove whether it will work."

I think your idea about "pro bono spirit" is misguided. None of us puts food on the table by giving our services away (and neither do attorneys), especially if we're going to assume liability. It also goes against the Code of Ethics to forego charging fees for our work, and I'm not losing my house just so you can pocket a few extra bucks. Best of luck--you have a lot of learning ahead of you.

 

[Lumber Jim]

well....that was fun.

I do hope you pursue engineering. (and I hope it calls to you to do so). It's fun, rewarding, the pay is usually decent, and something to be proud of when you achieve it and find success in it.
I hope you understand that engineering has its roots in taking on responsibility and solving problems in the physical world around you. For example, ASME got it's legs due to steam boilers exploding and the problem needed to be solved. I think your OP looked like a problem that we were trying to solve. Sometimes it's a strength and sometimes it's a weakness. Just ask my wife...


Don't go into it for the pay: https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/best-paying-jobs

or think it will save you money somehow. It won't.

I could open a can of worms and say that based on responsibility, engineering should be at the top of the pay scale or at least much higher but there are too many arm chair engineers or people that call themselves engineers (sanitation engineer?) that drag it down.

oh and: