To Vaccinate or Not To Vaccinate - that is the question

[Dexman PE PMP]

There is so much in this thread that I want to respond to, but no where near enough time to do it.

These are the facts:

Vaccines do not cause autism. This is one of the most studied things in the US. It is fact, not belief. This does not mean they are risk-free. Just under 1% of people around the world either have an allergic reaction or the vaccine does not work. List of known side effects here: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Vaccines do not work for everyone. Infants cannot be immunized until they are 6 months old, and a small percentage of people either have adverse reactions to the immunization or the immunization just does not work (my neighbor is one). Herd immunity is still their best chance to keep from catching the disease because the odds of encountering another un-vaccinated person carrying the disease is very small. The more un-vaccinated people there are, the higher the risk of your infant (who cannot get immunized yet) will be exposed.

Measles are more contagious than Ebola. Ebola requires direct fluid contact whereas the Measles can be spread with a sneeze or cough. The average Ebola patient will infect 2-3 people. The average Measles patient can infect up to 20. A Measles patient is contagious for up to 21 days before showing symptoms.

20% of children who catch measles will die, even in today's medical world. Doctors can only treat the symptoms to make you feel better, but the body has to fight the disease by itself. ~150k people died in 2013 due to Measles. It is still one of the leading cause of death for children under the age of 5. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

Southern California has a lower immunization rate than many 3rd world countries.

My wife works at one of the handful of hospitals in the country that has an infectious disease ward initially built for Ebola, but it has been primarily used for the treatment of Measles.

Immunization production is one of the most heavily regulated and monitored industries in the planet. The levels of chemicals used to produce immunizations are so infinitesimally small that you are more exposed when drinking a Starbucks coffee, eating McDonalds and sitting in the sun. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/127/Supplement_1/S23.full

Having illegal immigrants in the country is all the more reason to have your children vaccinated. If you fear the disease, protect yourself and your kids.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Not getting your children vaccinated is one of the stupidest things you can (not) do as a parent. Not getting vaccinated is not exercising your freedoms. With the ever-increasing global exposure our society faces, all it takes is one sneeze in an airport...

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

I believe the issue with anti-vaxers is not about the science, but rather the desire of parents to "exercise their freedom". Here are a couple good articles on it:

http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/what-everyone-gets-wrong-about-anti-vaccine-parents-fiff/

http://news.yahoo.com/what-anti-vax-parents-get-wrong-about-personal-liberty-213257756.html

Edit: if you can't tell, this is something I am very passionate about, like Dvinny with anti-smoking (which I also agree with)

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Forgot to mention: Religion is one of the worst excuses on the planet to not get vaccinated. Religion should only be used to justify how/why you are a becoming a better person.

 

[engineergurl]

Used to be the only people who didn't get vaccinated was the Amish which didn't seem like a big deal because they pretty much keep to themselves, don't they? I actually understand it because it goes against their religious beliefs, but also haven't heard of any Amish people getting the measles yet. I get frustrated because it's a group of people who could potentially have a right that they have exercised for years taken away from them, because someone wanted to take a stand against the government and twisted the situation to suit their own agenda.

And Dex, you can say what you will about religion, and I know we will probably never agree with it, but a lot of people are very passionate about their churches rules. It's not an excuse to them, it's what they feel. Trying to fight government control, making an uneducated choice, or listening to a celebrity are all much worse excuses than standing up for something you live, breath and believe in.

 

[Dark Knight]

For some reason just remembered when VT got sick after the flu shot. What were the chances?

However, without getting deep into the debate, I believe responsible parents should vaccinate their children. This is not about freedom to do whatever you want, is about the children health.

 

[engineergurl]

I stand corrected... now that I looked into it, there have been Amish with an outbreak... but guess what... the community impacted had people who went and protected themselves once they recognized the risk...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/06/24/323702892/measles-outbreak-in-ohio-leads-amish-to-reconsider-vaccines

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

This is going to sound very harsh, but I fail to understand how essentially a belief in an imaginary friend/father figure would think it is ok to put you and your children's health at risk. The reason it was an abomination to eat shellfish and pork in the Bible was because at the time food could not be handled/stored/cooked properly and was causing serious health problems. They didn't understand medicine, so instead used "god's wrath" and the fact that religion was their government to get people to stop doing it. It is no different than having today's government set regulations requiring vaccination.

Edit: a quick google search came up with this short list of religions vs vaccines: http://www.immunizeca.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Religious-Views-of-Vaccination-At-a-Glance.pdf Essentially, every major religious faction either allows or encourages vaccines and only a handful of very small sects don't allow it (Christian Science & those who "heal through prayer").

 

[engineergurl]

imaginary

This is why you fail to understand, but that's a debate we won't go near, thank you

 

[ptatohed]

I don't believe in vaccinating my kids. And if they come down with anything, I'll rely on faith healing.

 

[matt267 PE]

 

[knight1fox3]

There is so much in this thread that I want to respond to, but no where near enough time to do it.

These are the facts:

Vaccines do not cause autism. This is one of the most studied things in the US. It is fact, not belief. This does not mean they are risk-free. Just under 1% of people around the world either have an allergic reaction or the vaccine does not work. List of known side effects here: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Vaccines do not work for everyone. Infants cannot be immunized until they are 6 months old, and a small percentage of people either have adverse reactions to the immunization or the immunization just does not work (my neighbor is one). Herd immunity is still their best chance to keep from catching the disease because the odds of encountering another un-vaccinated person carrying the disease is very small. The more un-vaccinated people there are, the higher the risk of your infant (who cannot get immunized yet) will be exposed.

Measles are more contagious than Ebola. Ebola requires direct fluid contact whereas the Measles can be spread with a sneeze or cough. The average Ebola patient will infect 2-3 people. The average Measles patient can infect up to 20. A Measles patient is contagious for up to 21 days before showing symptoms.

20% of children who catch measles will die, even in today's medical world. Doctors can only treat the symptoms to make you feel better, but the body has to fight the disease by itself. ~150k people died in 2013 due to Measles. It is still one of the leading cause of death for children under the age of 5. http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

Southern California has a lower immunization rate than many 3rd world countries.

My wife works at one of the handful of hospitals in the country that has an infectious disease ward initially built for Ebola, but it has been primarily used for the treatment of Measles.

Immunization production is one of the most heavily regulated and monitored industries in the planet. The levels of chemicals used to produce immunizations are so infinitesimally small that you are more exposed when drinking a Starbucks coffee, eating McDonalds and sitting in the sun. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/127/Supplement_1/S23.full

Having illegal immigrants in the country is all the more reason to have your children vaccinated. If you fear the disease, protect yourself and your kids.

+1000

Agreed. Didn't see that coming from ptato.

 

[Lumber Jim]

Forgot to mention: Religion is one of the worst excuses on the planet to not get vaccinated. Religion should only be used to justify how/why you are a becoming a better person.

I feel this is directed at me. I wasn't implying that we make our health decisions based on religion. Only that my wife and I trust our doctor since he's not some Walgreen's vaccinator. He's intelligent and has good answers to the questions we ask and has an invested interest in us since he's invested in our community (at our church and outside of it). It would be easy for him to just tell everyone they absolutely need it.

I don't think you meant the God and religion references how I'm reading it. Debates on that front never quite work out. I can never get the words organized the right way when I try a rebuttal (I'm probably doing a bad job right now...) so all I can say is I'd be happy to show you why we like church and also why we don't always agree with our church but still continue to go.

We aren't exercising our freedoms or taking a stand against the government but I do believe there is such a thing as over medicating. I'm just not convinced we're at a major risk living in the Midwest in a rural area for the HEP A virus. Near as I can tell our risk across the U.S. is .006%. Our state specifically: .0009% (rounding up)

Relatively speaking, the symptoms for the virus sound easier to deal with than when the family dines at our local Indian, Chinese, or Mexican restaurants. That said, if I'm looking at this from the wrong perspective I'm open to someone changing my mind.

DISCLAIMER: DO not take 2nd hand medical advice from Lumber Jim on the interwebs.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

It was not directed at anyone in particular.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

I don't believe in vaccinating my kids. And if they come down with anything, I'll rely on faith healing.

And I believe this post is missing an [/sarcasm]

 

[ptatohed]

I don't believe in vaccinating my kids. And if they come down with anything, I'll rely on faith healing.

And I believe this post is missing an [/sarcasm]

lol. I thought about it ....... but then I thought it might be funner without it.

 

[Dleg]

Hepatitis A and B have always been sort of optional vaccines... CDC's stance for sewer workers even says they are not recommended, but should only be "considered" if there is an outbreak in the community, or a person has been exposed by ingesting sewage. What we're talking about here are the biggies, the ones that can KILL children and old people and people who otherwise are immunocompromised. The measles, pertussis, influenza, etc. - all of the "required" vaccinations.

 

[Dleg]

And I wish I could agree with RG, because the population could indeed use some thinning, but as Dex points out, those people put the infants of the smart people at risk, as well as our grandparents and relatives who are suffering through treatments for cancer or organ transplants, etc.

 

[matt267 PE]

lol. I thought about it ....... but then I thought it might be funner without it.

 

[Road Guy]

so why are these all hitting Disneyland? Doesn't really make sense unless its influx of foreigners and So Cal's who are apparently not as smart as they think they are?