The basement boys

[Capt Worley PE]

Interesting editorial by George Will

http://www.newsweek.com/id/234248

Current economic hardships have had what is called in constitutional law a "disparate impact": The crisis has not afflicted everyone equally. Although women are a majority of the workforce, perhaps as many as 80 percent of jobs lost were held by men. This injury to men is particularly unfortunate because it may exacerbate, and be exacerbated by, a culture of immaturity among the many young men who are reluctant to grow up.
Increasingly, they are defecting from the meritocracy. Women now receive almost 58 percent of bachelor's degrees. This is why many colleges admit men with qualifications inferior to those of women applicants—which is one reason men have higher dropout rates. The Pew Research Center reports that 28 percent of wives between ages 30 and 44 have more education than their husbands, whereas only 19 percent of husbands in the same age group have more education than their wives. Twenty-three percent of men with some college education earn less than their wives. In law, medical, and doctoral programs, women are majorities or, if trends continue, will be.

In 1956, the median age of men marrying was 22.5. But between 1980 and 2004, the percentage of men reaching age 40 without marrying increased from 6 to 16.5. A recent study found that 55 percent of men 18 to 24 are living in their parents' homes, as are 13 percent of men 25 to 34, compared to 8 percent of women.

Mike Stivic, a.k.a. Meathead, the liberal graduate student in All in the Family, reflected society's belief in the cultural superiority of youth, but he was a leading indicator of something else: He lived in his father-in-law Archie Bunker's home. What are today's "basement boys" doing down there? Perhaps watching Friends and Seinfeld reruns about a culture of extended youth utterly unlike the world of young adults in previous generations.

Gary Cross, a Penn State University historian, wonders, "Where have all the men gone?" His book, Men to Boys: The Making of Modern Immaturity, argues that "the culture of the boy-men today is less a life stage than a lifestyle." If you wonder what has become of manliness, he says, note the differences between Cary Grant and Hugh Grant, the former, dapper and debonair, the latter, a perpetually befuddled boy.

Permissive parenting, Cross says, made children less submissive, and the decline of deference coincided with the rise of consumer and media cultures celebrating the indefinite retention of the tastes and habits of childhood. The opening of careers to talented women has coincided with the attenuation of male role models in popular culture: In 1959, there were 27 Westerns on prime-time television glamorizing male responsibility.

Cross says the large-scale entry of women into the workforce made many men feel marginalized, especially when men were simultaneously bombarded by new parenting theories, which cast fathers as their children's pals, or worse: In 1945, Parents magazine said a father should "keep yourself huggable" but show a son the "respect" owed a "business associate."

All this led to "ambiguity and confusion about what fathers were to do in the postwar home and, even more, about what it meant to grow up male." Playboy magazine, a harbinger of perpetual adolescence, sold trinkets for would-be social dropouts: "Join the beat generation! Buy a beat generation tieclasp." Think about that.

Although Cross, an aging academic boomer, was a student leftist, he believes that 1960s radicalism became "a retreat into childish tantrums" symptomatic "of how permissive parents infantilized the boomer generation." And the boomers' children? Consider the television commercials for the restaurant chain called Dave & Buster's, which seems to be, ironically, a Chuck E. Cheese's for adults—a place for young adults, especially men, to drink beer and play electronic games and exemplify youth not as a stage of life but as a perpetual refuge from adulthood.

At the 2006 Super Bowl, the Rolling Stones sang "Satisfaction," a song older than the Super Bowl. At this year's game, another long-of-tooth act, the Who, continued the commerce of catering to baby boomers' limitless appetite for nostalgia. "My generation's obsession with youth and its memories," Cross writes, "stands out in the history of human vanity."

Last November, when Tiger Woods's misadventures became public, his agent said: "Let's please give the kid a break." The kid was then 33. He is now 34 but, no doubt, still a kid. The puerile anthem of a current Pepsi commercial is drearily prophetic: "Forever young."

 

[MA_PE]

I say "get a haircut and get a real job"

 

[Fluvial]

Cross says the large-scale entry of women into the workforce made many men feel marginalized, especially when men were simultaneously bombarded by new parenting theories, which cast fathers as their children's pals, or worse: In 1945, Parents magazine said a father should "keep yourself huggable" but show a son the "respect" owed a "business associate."

1945 ?? Surely we're over the shock by now. Surely.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I found this statisitc amazing:

But between 1980 and 2004, the percentage of men reaching age 40 without marrying increased from 6 to 16.5.

That's a pretty big increase.

 

[EM_PS]

sounds like shrinky-dink twaddle to me...

but, I do agree there are 'issues' with the current generation (millenials or Y or wtf ever). My 18 yo stepdaughter has a bf about to turn 19. Kid doesn't own a car, works part-time at Papa John's (stepdaughter parttime at a restaurant) - between the two of them, they're lucky to see maybe 24hrs combined in a typical week. They're looking at apartments(!) - He paints little LOTR men & is a rabid x-box'r. He doesnt wanna go to school cuz he doesnt want to take out loans for it. School & stepdaughter = lost cause. He carps about his parents charging him rent (we dont...yet).

Lazy...sense of entitlement...poor handle on how the world really works...holding out for their perfect job made to order...Likelihood of either teen actually leaving home in foreseeable future = sqrt(-1)

i disagree that this is a male only trait in this generation, disagree that women in the work place somehow are responsible & even disagree that a generation (boomers) are somehow responsible. Just appears to be the unfortunate evolution of cultural ethos in the western world

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I've heard it explained that a generation or two of men have been raised by women only with the babydaddy unaccounted for and thus have no 'man training.'

 

[OSUguy98]

but, I do agree there are 'issues' with the current generation (millenials or Y or wtf ever).

I've always called it the "Entitlement Generation"... but I'm beginning to think it more of an "Entitlement Era" because it's not just the early 20s and younger that want everything free, without consequence, and without any work or $$...

Edit--- Or better yet, rather than the "Age of Enlightenment", the "Age of Entitlement"

 

[Chucktown PE]

I've heard it explained that a generation or two of men have been raised by women only with the babydaddy unaccounted for and thus have no 'man training.'

Tyler Durden said something similar to this in Fight Club. I think we are raising/have been raising a generation full of a bunch of pansy *****. It has a lot to do with the fact that it's no longer "cool" to be tough. Hunting, fishing, football, boxing, etc. aren't in vogue. In organized sports, kids can't lose games, everyone gets a trophy, and they don't keep score.

All that being said, the most important thing to prevent the further emasculation of the American male is for dads to spend time with their sons, be engaged in their lives, and make sure to point out the ******** that they are constantly being bombarded with from our culture. A healthy respect for discipline, God, and country is also paramount. I believe the same thing is true for dads spending time with daughters, but it appears that the subject at hand has more to do with males than females.

 

[RIP - VTEnviro]

It's so true.

I went to my 10 year HS reunion a couple years ago. Half the people there were 28, living with mom and pop, and 'trying to figure out what to do next' - which basically meant not working but not looking, or working a McJob so they didn't have to try that hard.

They'd get so resentful and up in arms when someone who was working hard and carving out a decent life for themselves. Lines like 'Well isn't that great for you' and 'Life's not fair I never get a break' were common.

Like suddenly when they were 25 someone was going to give them a corner office and their dream home.

 

[Santiagj]

I can't believe its acceptable for a man to wear skinny jeans.

wtf.

 

[chaosiscash]

I may have mentioned this here before, but it amazes me how many guys I know my age (I'm 29) who can't DO anything. I was lucky enough to be taught by my dad from an early age how to do things, like car repair, home repair, landscaping, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm no master mechanic, but I can change my own oil and diagnose most problems. It completely has to do with my father taking the time to teach me how to do things, which gave me the confidence to learn on my own as well. I know guys like me my own age, but we're outnumbered (best I can tell) by those that are scared to death to try and fix anything thereselves.

When I realized this a few years ago, I made sure to thank him. He told me the reason he taught me all that stuff years ago was because when he was in his 20's, just starting a young family, he would never have been able to make it financially if he hadn't been able to do a lot of repair work and whatnot himself. He wanted to make sure that when I got older I'd be able to do the same thing.

I'm my dad's only son, but I have a stepbrother and three brothers-in-law. All four fit in the category of nobody ever taking the time to teach them to do anything. And all four have had to go to my parents, at some time or another, for financial help. Its unfortunate that they didn't grow up being taught how to be independent.

 

[Chucktown PE]

I've mentioned it before but my brothers-in-law are still sucking on the teat of my MIL and FIL. My wife used to think I was weird because I won't accept that for us. Over the last 6 years of marriage I've gradually made her realize that it's not me that's weird.

 

[EM_PS]

Over the last 6 years of marriage I've gradually made her realize that it's me that's weird.

fixed it, and i think she got that before 6 years... :lmao:

 

[maryannette]

Very interesting article. I don't think that any one thing is to blame. Like EM said, it is a cultural evolution. We have 2 daughters - both raised the same. Same parents, same schools, same experiences growing up, BUT different personalities. They are very different. The older one has always been "younger" and the younger one has always been "older". They will both be okay. Just different. And we have never accepted not growing up as an option, as hard as it may be.

 

[Kephart P.E.]

I had an interesting experience with this topic on Sunday.

My GF had a friend of her's over and her 7 year old son came along.

Generally he is a pretty good kid, attention span of a knat, but I like him well enough. We me and his mom were talking and she mentioned to me that the boy had recently started acting up in school and being insolent at home. And I commented it sounded like it was time for the Playstation to go into a box in the closet.

Her response? "Well that will probably just make him resent us even more that he already does."

I was speechless. I think I said something witty like: "So?"

I really doubt my parents ever uttered something similar or even gave a **** what my little 7 year old brain thought. Of course they were just a couple of high school educated, hard working blue collar folks so what would they have known about raising children?

 

[TouchDown]

When my kids act up and we take away their favorite thing... they look at me and say, "you're the worst dad in the whole world, you hate me!!!!"...

My general response is pretty much always - "sounds like I made the right decision. Life's not easy, better you learn now than when important things are on the line."

I honestly don't understand the "incapable" of sustaining life outside of parents either. I think it must have been the home I was raised in, I grew up on a farm, and you had to participate in "life" - I was part of a family, and everyone helped. There were no options to go and play XBox, or even for that matter watch a lot of TV - we had 1 station.

To allow yourself to become so unbelievably dependent upon your parents sounds a lot like my sister who's a drunk, and was in a relationship where they were co-dependent. The kids wanted it a certain way, but the parent's never said no for fear of hurting the kids feelings.

NOT IN EVERY SCENARIO - but if my kids needed a good kick in the *** (they are 1,6, and 8 right now, so it's easier said than done...) , it would be a dis-service to take away that learning experience from them, let your kids fail. It's OK, it's called parenting.

You know what my parents got me for college? They paid for my car insurance, took out a few loans to get me started my first 2 semesters, and purchased me a set of luggage.

A set of luggage - message received.

 

[Dexman PE]

You know what my parents got me for college? They paid for my car insurance, took out a few loans to get me started my first 2 semesters, and purchased me a set of luggage.
A set of luggage - message received.

+1

 

[Supe]

On one of the local morning shows today, a mom called in to try to talk her 24 year old son into moving out. He had a job, paid her rent, but was just too cheap to move out and get his own apartment so he could keep mooching. His response was, "this is ridiculous, I don't see why you want me out of the house so bad, there are tons of parents who want their kids to move back hom. Dave's mom would love to have him back living home."

To which she replied, "of COURSE she wants David to move back home. She's in a wheelchair!"

"I don't see what that has to do with anything."

 

[Chucktown PE]

My parents told me very clearly what was expected of me. They told me they would pay for me to go to college anywhere in the country that I wanted to go as long as I made As and Bs. Anything less than that and I was to get a job and move out of the house. If I got arrested I was told very clearly that I should call someone else because my parents weren't coming to bail me out of jail. I never tested them on these things. I plan to offer my kids the same deal.

We already do the taking toys away thing and my kids are 2 and 4. If they refuse to listen then we start taking toys away. Eventually that seems to get through to them. We haven't spanked yet because we don't think they'll understand it. I'm hoping we never have to.

 

[Dleg]

Cool article! I read a similar column in Time a few months ago, and letters the month after, about how the modern approach to child-rearing isn't necessarily producing good results. The most interesting point was raised by one of the letter writers, who noted how, when he was a kid in the Great Depression, his Dad was away at work all the time, and his Mom was busy keeping the house, and the kids went to school and otherwise played pretty much unattended by the adults. No after school soccer, no other close-parent-involvement activities. BUT - they would get spanked when they did anything bad or disrespected an adult, and have their mouths washed out with soap if they said bad words, etc. The letter writer noted that he and his friends grew up to become "The Greatest Generation".

I think it's the discipline and respect that's the big missing element. I use the islands as a good example: here, kids get left pretty much unattended just like in the 1930s. BUT - there's no discipline. Kids run wild, tell adults "f--k you!", don't do homework, get in fights, and smoke pot. And as a result, many kids grow up to be incredibly rude, poorly educated, disrespectful, unable to compete in the job market, and often turn to crime.

Or politics.