The Automotive Thread

[mudpuppy]

Since we moved out to the country, my wife has had some trouble getting around in the winter in general, and especially getting up the hill at the end of our private road when it's snowy or icy.  She has a 2011 Nissan Versa with with about 130k miles on it.

Since she's from the south and not very experienced driving in slippery conditions, we're looking at getting her something AWD.  One factor is she is diminutive, so it has to be something she can reach the steering wheel and pedals, and also see over the hood.  Right now she's driving a loaner Nissan Rouge from the dealer because they screwed up the airbag recall in her car, and she's not comfortable in the Rogue at all.

We're leaning toward a 2017 or 2018 Escape.  We rented one at Christmas time and she was comfortable driving it.  Now trying to decide whether to buy new, or try to find a low-mileage used one.  Of course she wants the top trim level (Titanium), and it looks like about $4k or so price difference from new to used.  Usually I'm pretty cheap, but it's tempting to go for the new one so we have confidence in where it's been.  A lot of the 2017 used ones are former rentals.

Her mom is pissed we're not considering a Kia Sportage because she has one.  My brother in law works for Kia in Georgia so he can get us a discount, but (1) it's a Kia (BIL doesn't even own one himself), and (2) she wasn't very comfortable in her mom's.

 

[Supe]

Honda CRV or Subaru Outback.  You can still get 0% financing on the Outbacks, or you can get I think 1.9% on the Honda as part of their President's day deal.

 

[Road Guy]

I'm from the south and I am dominating winter driving /emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20">

 

[mudpuppy]

Honda CRV or Subaru Outback.  You can still get 0% financing on the Outbacks, or you can get I think 1.9% on the Honda as part of their President's day deal.

Looks like those are both CVTs.  Are CVTs as crappy as they used to be, or becoming more reliable?

I'll certainly consider any option, but to be completely honest, it would be a leap for me to buy a new "foreign" vehicle.  I know that every vehicle comes from all over the world, (heck, my Aveo is really a Daewoo) and a lot of these are assembled in the USA , but when Ford and GM are headquartered within an hour drive of my house, and I know a lot of people who work for the Big 3, it's hard to break that loyalty.  Plus I get a supplier discount at all three.  That being said, if the right thing came along I just might buy it.

 

[csb]

I loved my Escape until it shit the bed on I-70. 

 

[Supe]

They have come a very long way in both performance and reliability.

FYI, the Honda 1.5T engines are built in Ohio, and the CRV's are assembled in OH, IN, or Ontario.  My Si was from Ohio as well.  Nothing stacked up against either car in their price range, though I think the standard features tipped the Subaru's direction once you decided 4WD was a necessity.

 

[knight1fox3]

The Escapes look decent, but they appear to have shrunk from their previous design (like what CSB had). I also like all the latest interface/navigation features that Ford has to offer (just had a rental recently). But for me personally, I'm too much of a cheapskate to justify buying a brand new vehicle off the lot. With a little digging via a vehicle's VIN, I can usually find out exactly where a vehicle has been previously and what kind of maintenance it has had (or not had).

So Mrs. MP isn't going for the F-350 4x4 dually diesel extended cab? :dunno:

 

[jeb6294]

This should work nicely...https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/727147125/overview/

In all honesty, if she can't drive around in a FWD then going to AWD isn't going to fix it.  Now, if you're thinking of replacing your Nissan anyway, then I am always one to recommend getting an AWD over a FWD if you can swing it...the whole better to have it and not need it.  Resale tends to be better also.

 

[Road Guy]

The strong American market for 4WD seems to be mostly in the truck market and Jeep Wrangler  (Cherokee / Liberty / New renegade thing/ etc not a "jeep")

I do seem to know a ton of people who had issues with escapes (CSB and Krak here also) but maybe those were older ones..

The wife wanted true full time AWD so she doesn't have to make a "decision" regarding when to switch to 4WD here (chic thing I guess) - she got a Toyota highlander, which she now regrets not getting a Tacoma or 4Runner - but we bought a used one and it looks like she is formulating a plan to let the elder kid take the highlander to college so she can get her Tacoma..

The Highlander does okay up to around 2" of snow but it slides a lot - we have an old Tahoe (2002) which is a tank and its honestly my preferred vehicle when there is more than 4" of the Connecticut Confetti falling...

We had a Ford Explorer back in the day which was AWD but it was total junk IMO - I think it was a 1999. But that thing had major issues, and most were due to "features" always breaking and causing other issues....

 

[mudpuppy]

I'm sure she'd love the excursion or the F350 dually crew cab.... but there is a budget.

I have the same concerns about AWD vs. 4WD, but real 4WD is a lot harder to find these days, and being inexperienced in winter driving we have the same concerns as Mrs. RG about when she'll decide to lock in.  Plus we have my XJ for when the snow is really bad.  

Jeb, I generally agree with you that AWD isn't going to make things better if she can't drive her FWD car, with the exception of getting up the hills on our road and our driveway.  Having some power to the rear wheels when going uphill on ice makes a huge difference.  My main concern is her not being able to get home when I'm not around, as my neighbor's wife had that problem several times this winter with her Civic.

 

[Road Guy]

It would be nice if they would start making the XJ again....

 

[Supe]

I'm sure she'd love the excursion or the F350 dually crew cab.... but there is a budget.

I have the same concerns about AWD vs. 4WD, but real 4WD is a lot harder to find these days, and being inexperienced in winter driving we have the same concerns as Mrs. RG about when she'll decide to lock in.  Plus we have my XJ for when the snow is really bad.  

Jeb, I generally agree with you that AWD isn't going to make things better if she can't drive her FWD car, with the exception of getting up the hills on our road and our driveway.  Having some power to the rear wheels when going uphill on ice makes a huge difference.  My main concern is her not being able to get home when I'm not around, as my neighbor's wife had that problem several times this winter with her Civic.

I will say that our old CRV (2005) with AWD was killer in the snow/ice.  I used to take that thing everywhere, even when the roads were a solid sheet, as was the norm in NC for the once a year snow.

 

[csb]

We've had a bit of snow of late and I've been enjoying seeing what the Outback can do. 

FWIW, Subaru got rid of the timing belt which was an issue on the CVT. 

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Never thought I'd say this, but don't knock Kia. They've really stepped up their game the last few years and actually have a lot of value for the price. We would have gotten the Sportage, but found the Cerato -(aka Forte) had all the same features minus the AWD for a lot less. It's something worth at least a test drive.

 

[MA_PE]

4WD/AWD/FWD/RWD My experience is that with respect to getting around on snow covered roads, it really doesn't matter a lot of you've got real snow tires on the vehicle.  If you've got all-weather tires (such as OEM equipment on new vehicles) the it's a real crapshoot how you'll fare in the snow.

As far as CVTs, my wife has a 2005 Ford Freestyle with ~150k on it and aside from the "slushy" feel of accelerating with no defined gears it (knock on wood) has been trouble free since she first got it with 25k on the odometer.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

4WD/AWD/FWD/RWD My experience is that with respect to getting around on snow covered roads, it really doesn't matter a lot of you've got real snow tires on the vehicle.  If you've got all-weather tires (such as OEM equipment on new vehicles) the it's a real crapshoot how you'll fare in the snow.

As far as CVTs, my wife has a 2005 Ford Freestyle with ~150k on it and aside from the "slushy" feel of accelerating with no defined gears it (knock on wood) has been trouble free since she first got it with 25k on the odometer.

I used to feel this way, but it also does depend on the vehicle as to whether a RWD is really snow capable. Even with real snow tires, a lot of RWD cars (not trucks) simply don't work in snowy/icy roads. I could get around in my Camaro, but there were a lot of places that quickly became off limits after a couple inches of snow...

 

[Road Guy]

I admit, and its still weird to see, but there are more than you would imagine prius type vehicles with (I assume) snow tires that make their way to the mountains here during fairly heavy snowfalls..

I got behind a dude in a Cadillac- (it was obvious RWD and not able to advance) a few weekends ago heading up to the tunnel (its about a 6% grade) - even with a well plowed road, but still snowing he caused everyone behind him at least another 30 minutes of having to drive around his ass- I think he had California plates..

 

[MA_PE]

I used to feel this way, but it also does depend on the vehicle as to whether a RWD is really snow capable. Even with real snow tires, a lot of RWD cars (not trucks) simply don't work in snowy/icy roads. I could get around in my Camaro, but there were a lot of places that quickly became off limits after a couple inches of snow...

That's when you add sandbags in the trunk.  The posi and TCS will help too.  The one limiting factor with a sports car might be the ground clearance.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

That's when you add sandbags in the trunk.  The posi and TCS will help too.  The one limiting factor with a sports car might be the ground clearance.

It also has to do with the contact area of the tires. Sports cars tend to have much wider tires and don't "cut through" the snow or concentrate the weight well enough to maintain a good static coefficient of friction on ice. It's also why those FWD cars with the big 20" wheels tend to struggle.

The guys who have the best luck with RWD cars have narrower wheel/tire combos as well as snow/ice specific treads.

For the Camaro, the contact area of a standard rear wheel is about 27 sq.in., but by simply reducing it from a 9" wheel to an 8" wheel it changes the weight distribution from 30 psi to 34 psi (3300 lb curb weight divided by 4 wheels, divided by contact area - 3in by 9in vs 3x8). You'd need about 200lbs of sandbags to have the same effect.

 

[Supe]

I am amazed at how well the mechanical diff in my Si works.  ZERO torque steer.  It's an eerie feeling in a front wheel drive car, especially when I test drove the Focus ST about a year or two ago and it was practically undriveable without fighting the wheel and guessing what the brake-based traction control would do.