Solar and Wind

[Supe]

We're currently bidding on two new clean coal jobs in TX, one in Corpus Christie, and another one further south. I'm REALLY hoping that we get them (it will bring me back to TX in 3 years, and give this division of the company a much needed financial boost for long-term scope of work), but getting those permits through won't be a walk in the park.

 

[Guest]

And even more hot wind .... :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

Obama Uses Stimulus To Advance Environmental Policies

:sharkattack:

JR

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Is anyone really surprised?

I'm waiting to see what will happen when the CAFE rules force the domestic automakers to build tiny little cars Americans don not want.

 

[wvgirl14]

An article from the local paper:

http://www.register-herald.com/local/local..._162221350.html

This was on the next page:

http://www.register-herald.com/local/local..._162221609.html

ALl this and gas is going up!

 

[Santiagj]

The reactor that is slated (cross your fingers) for Calvert Cliffs (Maryland) is the Areva EPR 1600 MW reactor. This one reactor has the same output as the two units that are already there.

 

[Wolverine]

1.600 Gigawatts - nyyice!

That's one obstacle down, one to go. Now all I have to do is figure out how to get it down to the size of a juicer.

 

[Santiagj]

Plus the facility was designed for an ultimate build of 4 reactors. So theoretically they can have 800+800+1600+1600 = 4800MW coming from one location. Assuming the 4th reactor was another Areva EPR.

 

[Slugger926]

Plus the facility was designed for an ultimate build of 4 reactors. So theoretically they can have 800+800+1600+1600 = 4800MW coming from one location. Assuming the 4th reactor was another Areva EPR.

I think I know of a untapped form of energy that would put those reactors to shame. Has anyone thought about putting wind turbines in the White House and in the Capital? All of the hot air blowing around should be able to power the USA .

:unitedstates:

 

[Guest]

The reactor that is slated (cross your fingers) for Calvert Cliffs (Maryland) is the Areva EPR 1600 MW reactor.

Is that anything like the illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator??

I think I know of a untapped form of energy that would put those reactors to shame. Has anyone thought about putting wind turbines in the White House and in the Capital? All of the hot air blowing around should be able to power the USA .
:unitedstates:

:appl: :appl: :appl:

JR

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I think I know of a untapped form of energy that would put those reactors to shame. Has anyone thought about putting wind turbines in the White House and in the Capital? All of the hot air blowing around should be able to power the USA .
:unitedstates:

Severe overspeed problems were encountered.

 

[Santiagj]

Is that anything like the illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator??

Hehe. Had to look that up.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Hehe. Had to look that up.

You wouldn't have if his picture was still showing up. It was a huge pic of Marvin the Martian.

 

[OSUguy98]

Okay... being mostly (if not compeltely) ignorant when it comes to power stations/power grids/etc... I have a few questions...

On a given summer day (what I'd assume is worse-case, with all the continents ACs running), what's the power requirements for the US?

What are some typical power outputs for different types of plants/wind farms/solar arrays/etc? (loaded question, I'm sure)

With the "Grid", are all areas of the country connected in some way or another? or is that just a misconception? Regional Grids? etc?

 

[benbo]

Okay... being mostly (if not compeltely) ignorant when it comes to power stations/power grids/etc... I have a few questions...
On a given summer day (what I'd assume is worse-case, with all the continents ACs running), what's the power requirements for the US?

What are some typical power outputs for different types of plants/wind farms/solar arrays/etc? (loaded question, I'm sure)

With the "Grid", are all areas of the country connected in some way or another? or is that just a misconception? Regional Grids? etc?

I mainly know California.

In California, the peak consumption is around 50 MW. I'd assume a few TW in the US. In California the SEGS group of solar generators generates around 350MW. It depends on the solar technology. THe Altamont Pass Wind Farm generates around 500 MW, comparable to a combined cycles plant, but it takes a lot more space.

The problem is that during the summer months, wind is most often unreliable, although obviously solar works better in the summer.

I believe that most areas of the country are connected in one way or another, but it's not like California would buy power generated in New York. It would basically be shipped or "wheeled" ion from a neighboring state, which would in turn trade power with its neighbors.

I don't think anybody expects renewable energy to provide the baseload power in the US for a long time to come. It is too unreliable. We will be relying on nukes and fossil plants for a long time to come, with small renewable concentrations on the edges. I think California is talking about a renewable portfolio of around 33% by 2020, but I think that is wildly optimistic. California currently gets about 8% of its power from renewables (not counting hydro which provides about 20%).

 

[wilheldp_PE]

I mainly know California.
In California, the peak consumption is around 50 MW.

Don't you mean 50 GW?

 

[benbo]

Don't you mean 50 GW?

yeah. 50,000 MW.

I don't think conservation has been that effective.

 

[OSUguy98]

So what's a (new) nuke plant produce?

 

[Flyer_PE]

^Anywhere from 1300 MWe to 1600 MWe seems to be the norm.

 

[Wolverine]

Okay... being mostly (if not compeltely) ignorant when it comes to power stations/power grids/etc... I have a few questions...
On a given summer day (what I'd assume is worse-case, with all the continents ACs running), what's the power requirements for the US?

What are some typical power outputs for different types of plants/wind farms/solar arrays/etc? (loaded question, I'm sure)

With the "Grid", are all areas of the country connected in some way or another? or is that just a misconception? Regional Grids? etc?

I can tell you for the southeast, not including Florida, it's just slightly lower than California's, around 45GW.

The "Grid" is really a set of independent systems with specific interconnect points. The West is pretty much it's own system. So is Texas. East of the Mississippi, things interconnect a little easier, but there are regional territories each containing one or a few major players - the Southeast, Florida, the Midwest, the Northeast - and only a certain number of intertie points. Each system has it's own characteristics. There is one federal regulatory overseer, individual regional overseers, and then each state has it's own Public Service Commission, so there are a lot of layers of regulation.

Then to make it even more complicated, each area has it's own load profile. The south is hot in summer, but not so much in winter (summer peaking). The north is opposite (winter peaking). Arizona is pretty much hot all the time. The Left Coast (help me out?) I believe has strong seasonal power flows, north in the winter, south in the summer.

To make it even more complicated, you can have a heat wave where a stormfront cuts across the botom of the region making the north hotter than the south for the day, or something squirrelly like that. That makes it hard to say what the National (or even Regional!) peak load is.

A rough heirarchy of practical generator sizes follows: (my ranges are certainly debatable)

Portable generators = 0.3-5 kilowatts

Fuel cell = 1-100kW

Solar = 1-500 kW

Wind = 0.5-100 megawatts

Diesel = 0.1-100 MW

Hydro = 0.1-500MW

Coal/Nat. Gas = 100-1000MW

Nuclear = 0.8-1.6GW per unit (1-6 units per site)

Roughly: renewables are measured in kilowatts, fossil fuel is megawatts, nuclear is Gigawatts.

(This space reserved for corrections that there are many larger installations than what I've detailed here. Three Gorges Dam in China is 22.5 GW's!)

 

[Guest]

Ihree Gorges Dam in China is 22.5 GW's!

That's impressive. There is a collaborative effort between two companies in MI where the hydro generation is 1,872 megawatts. The penstocks and generators are going through a massive overhaul/updating project where that capacity will be increased (don't have a figure for that one).

You can read about it here: CEC/DTE Pumped Storage Facility

Important Cost-Technology Note:

It takes approximtely 3-units of energy to pump the water vs. 2-units of enegy generation. The feasibility/cost savings is realized and achieved by actively pumping when the baseload draw is at it's nadir (e.g. night). So, while this technology, at face, is not feasible, offsetting the pumping vs. discharging with 'surplus' energy is what makes it happen. Something most people don't seem to take into account when evaluating various alternative.

Wolverine - can you comment/explain 'smart grid' technology in terms of how that plays out on the grid system as well as practicality/feasiblity of implementing/operating?

JR