Solar and Wind

[Ble_PE]

^You should be used to subsidizing other people by now.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

Not sure about the load curve in CA, but here, peak demand occurs around 4-5 PM, which is well after peak sunshine.

In theory, utilities don't care too much about net metering as long as it's mandated by their regulators. The costs will be passed on to the other customers. Granted I work for a utility... but as a customer I think net metering is grossly unfair to those who don't want can't afford to slap solar panels on their houses, because they end up subsidizing those who do.

Fixed.

Although I still say the best plan is a house designed ground up to be totally off grid. Battery tech ain't there yet, but it is progressing nicely.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

TX looks to be going big with wind lately:

http://m.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2013/09/24/dallas-company-plans-1100-mw-wind.html?r=full

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2013/09/23/texas-wind-power-growing-fast.html

http://lubbockonline.com/local-news/2013-10-02/wind-power-project-coming-crosby-county#.UoKAo9KsiSp

 

[knight1fox3]

^ and CNG plants. I'm working on 2 projects right now with Invenergy to have 2 simple cycle systems installed with plans for additional units.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

^ and CNG plants. I'm working on 2 projects right now with Invenergy to have 2 simple cycle systems installed with plans for additional units.

Do they have to have dedicated pipelines or something? Always wondered how they bought the fuel to the plant.

 

[knight1fox3]

They have various taps throughout various counties. And the size of the plant and gas demand/psi will dictate how large the header and corresponding pipe needs to be. But then that length of pipe will need to be run to the site through a regulating station.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

^So they can only be x miles from the wellhead?

 

[knight1fox3]

Depending on the service requirements and budget constraints, closer is better.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

And it sounds like converting coal plants to CNG would be a bust, generally, for that reason.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

There is a massive wind farm about 90 miles north of Indianapolis on I-65. It goes on for about 10 miles with windmills as far as the eye can see along each side of the interstate. There has to be over 1000 windmills up there.

 

[mudpuppy]

And it sounds like converting coal plants to CNG would be a bust, generally, for that reason.

Maybe & maybe not--it just depends on where the gas transmission infrastructure is vs. where the electric transmission infrastructure is. They both cost a lot to build. Not to mention water availability, as it takes a lot of water to run a plant (combined cycle at least). We don't have simple cycle plants around here, but I guess down there in TX it is worth it.

There are consultants that specialize in siting power plants, since there's a lot more that goes into it than just this (finding enough land, environmental constraints, etc).

We have a combined cycle NG plant here in my town--they built about 5 miles of high pressure gas main, two 3-mile electric transmission lines, a large switching station ($40 million) and a huge water supply line (they use something like 20% of the city's water), and that's a relatively small 580 MW plant. It was built on an old Goodyear factory site (contaminated) and they pay no taxes.

I wouldn't be surprised if you start to see some of the old coal power plant sites redeveloped as combustion turbine sites--the water and electric infrastructure are already there, you just have to get gas to them. Plus most of these sites are already contaminated, so you might as well reuse them for something.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

I wouldn't be surprised if you start to see some of the old coal power plant sites redeveloped as combustion turbine sites--the water and electric infrastructure are already there, you just have to get gas to them. Plus most of these sites are already contaminated, so you might as well reuse them for something.

Completely agree with that, and I'm sure it benefits the power companies by not having to clean up the site like they would if they abandoned it.

 

[Capt Worley PE]

A Georgia state lawmaker on Tuesday introduced legislation that would encourage more solar power in the state by making the solar panel purchase process more like buying a car — allowing citizens to lease, rather than buy, solar panels for their homes.

Republican Rep. Mike Dudgeon, an electrical engineer, said the bill would let property owners lease solar panels instead of having to buy them with cash up front. Though the bill if passed may very well result in an increased incentive for people to power their homes with renewable energy, Dungeon says the main reasons for introducing the ill are enabling free-market financing.

Current law in Georgia states that, if citizens want a solar paneled home, they must buy the technology from the state electric utility. Property owners are allowed to arrange financing through banks to buy and install their own solar panels, but they are not allowed to work with companies that are specifically dedicated to both financing and operating the panels for them. Those kinds of financing agreements are permitted in 22 states, according to the Athens Banner-Herald, but the law in Georgia blocks those deals.

Dudgeon insists that his bill would not change the part of that law that gives the state utilities exclusive power providing rights, but would only change the rules for small, individual solar projects. Major power providers would be still be in direct contention with the law if they sought to build or finance their own solar farms. And though the projects opened up to leasing would be small, they would eventually add up to big business for the state’s growing solar industry, according to Jason Rooks, president of Clean Energy Strategies LLC.

“The last few years have seen a drastic drop in prices for solar technology,” he told the Chronicle. “We’re certain that under this [legislation], national and international investment will come to Georgia.”

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/01/30/3224161/solar-panel-leasing/

I'm not a giant fan of these leasing companies. Generally they end up with all the benefit and the homeowner doesn't see much....

 

[engineergurl]

I'm not so sure about the residential programs, but we are doing something similar here at work, and the partnership though while skewed, still gives us some benefits...

 

[Supe]

And it sounds like converting coal plants to CNG would be a bust, generally, for that reason.

Maybe & maybe not--it just depends on where the gas transmission infrastructure is vs. where the electric transmission infrastructure is. They both cost a lot to build. Not to mention water availability, as it takes a lot of water to run a plant (combined cycle at least). We don't have simple cycle plants around here, but I guess down there in TX it is worth it.

There are consultants that specialize in siting power plants, since there's a lot more that goes into it than just this (finding enough land, environmental constraints, etc).

We have a combined cycle NG plant here in my town--they built about 5 miles of high pressure gas main, two 3-mile electric transmission lines, a large switching station ($40 million) and a huge water supply line (they use something like 20% of the city's water), and that's a relatively small 580 MW plant. It was built on an old Goodyear factory site (contaminated) and they pay no taxes.

I wouldn't be surprised if you start to see some of the old coal power plant sites redeveloped as combustion turbine sites--the water and electric infrastructure are already there, you just have to get gas to them. Plus most of these sites are already contaminated, so you might as well reuse them for something.

We're already doing quite a bit of this. We've been building a standard plant design 600MW combined cycle for a few years now with 6 more in the works. Typically being erected as new units on smaller 250MW coal jobbers so they can phase out the old units, some of which are 60+ years old.

 

[iwire]

There is definitely a potential in solar panels in the residential side if the pricing come down drastically. I have no problem with solar panel as we are not storing the energy but back feed into the grid instead