Salary by Discipline

[mudpuppy]

Ok, for ease of comparison, I've tabulated the data from this thread by discipline.

Some notes: To prevent skewing I threw out four outliers (of 60 data points) which were approximately four or more standard deviations from the average of their discipline, namely civilsurvey ($120k), BigRay76 ($115k), Benbo's semiconductor job ($128k), and Oilfield Engineer ($115k). If a person listed a salary range, I used the average of the range. If a variable bonus was listed, I used the average of the range. I used the field the person is working if their degree was in a different field. I put the Structural people in with Civil since I think there were only two Structurals. I did not try to account for length of experience or work location.

There were 26 Civil data points, 2 Chem data points, 6 Enviro data points, 11 Mechanical data points, 13 Electrical data points, and 2 Geo data points.

Results (rounded to the nearest $1k):

Overall Average = $67000 (note, the high number of Civil data points may have skewed this average)

Overall ST Dev = $15000

Civil Average = $61000 ST Dev = $13000

Enviro Average = $64000 ST Dev = $13000

Mechanical Average = $66000 ST Dev = $12000

EE Average = $79000 ST Dev = $10000

Sorry, there was not enough data for Chem or Geo to do any meaningful analysis.

I also broke down the data in other ways depending on how much data was available:

Civil, Bachelor's Average = $58000 ST Dev = $12000

Civil, Master's Average = $65000 ST Dev = $13000

Civil, EIT Average = $55000 ST Dev = $8000

Civil, PE Average = $67000 ST Dev = $13000

Civil, Bachelor's & EIT Average = $53000 ST Dev = $8000

Civil, Master's & EIT Average = $58000 ST Dev = $5000

Civil, Bachelor's & PE Average = $65000 ST Dev = $12000

Civil, Master's & PE Average = $70000 ST Dev = $13000

Enviro: Not enough data

Mechanical, EIT Average = $68000, ST Dev = $13000

Mechanical, PE Average = $61000, ST Dev = $10000

Electrical, EIT Average = $80000, ST Dev = $8000

Electrical, PE Average = $78000, ST Dev = $11000

For the most part, these results don't suprise me except for the ME EIT vs. PE. My only explanation for the lower PE values is I only had four data points for that set.

 

[benbo]

Ok, for ease of comparison, I've tabulated the data from this thread by discipline.
Benbo's semiconductor job ($128k

Sounds good. I don't make that anymore - it was a fluke from the hi-tech days. Now I'm a poor government worker slob.

 

[Dleg]

Nice work, mudpuppy.

:appl:

 

[Guest]

Wow mudpuppy, I am wicked jealous of your mad statistical skillz !!!! :true:

Excellent job!! :appl: :appl: :bananalama:

JR

 

[mudpuppy]

I wouldn't say I have mad statistal skillz, just the patience to spend a couple hours typing all those numbers into a spreadsheet (and trying to avoid real work). But thanks! I'll save the spreadsheet to update in the future if we get more people to post in here. It would be nice to have enough data to do EIT vs. PE and Master's vs. Bachelor's for all the disciplines.

I noticed a couple interesting things in the data. First, as many of us suspected, the PE doesn't seem to have much effect on salary for EE. Also, it looks like the answer to the perennial question, "Which is worth more, PE or Master's" for Civils is definitely the PE (of course, both is best).

BTW, benbo, I don't blame you one bit for giving up that job--I don't think I could have even made it four years at that pace.

 

[IlPadrino]

I wouldn't say I have mad statistal skillz, just the patience to spend a couple hours typing all those numbers into a spreadsheet (and trying to avoid real work). But thanks! I'll save the spreadsheet to update in the future if we get more people to post in here. It would be nice to have enough data to do EIT vs. PE and Master's vs. Bachelor's for all the disciplines.
I noticed a couple interesting things in the data. First, as many of us suspected, the PE doesn't seem to have much effect on salary for EE. Also, it looks like the answer to the perennial question, "Which is worth more, PE or Master's" for Civils is definitely the PE (of course, both is best).

BTW, benbo, I don't blame you one bit for giving up that job--I don't think I could have even made it four years at that pace.

What about other variables at work besides discipline and licensing? Given such a small sample, I'd guess geography plays as large a role as either of those. Any idea what the correlation looks like for your data?

 

[bigray76]

I think the availability or market for yoru specific job function may also be a variable (hard to quantify). There is a shortage of estimators and superintendants in the NJ market right now, hence some of our supers make as much as some of our PM's in an effort to retain them. Likewise, guys I started out with in the company that have gone the field roure (project engineers, assistant PM's) make $20k to $25k less than I do. We have been trying to find some good estimators, but there are very few on the market right now and even the bottom of the barrel dwellers are getting paid well for their short stints at all of the bigger GC/CM's. We have tried to train a few guys, but they are just not the right fit.

I just got a call from a headhunter as I was typing this, go figure.

-Ray

 

[brick_27]

MCE (Will complete - May 2009)

BSME (Will complete - May 2009)

BS Construction Engineering Technology (2000)

AS Architectural Engineering Technology (1999)

EI (2002)

PE (Just Passed)

$60K - 8 years experience structural design (residential and commercial)

 

[KEG]

brick,

How are you getting a BSME and MCE (Masters in Civil, I assume) at the same time, May '09? The reason I ask is I have considered going back to school for my Master's but since my undergrad is a BS in Electrical Engineering Technology, I have been told that I'd be better off to get my BS in Engineering and then a Master's.

 

[mudpuppy]

What about other variables at work besides discipline and licensing? Given such a small sample, I'd guess geography plays as large a role as either of those. Any idea what the correlation looks like for your data?

As I said, I didn't account for geography in the numbers because I don't have a quantifiable way to do that. However, qualitatively it seemed there was a concentration of people along the East Coast states (Vermont to Florida) with a scattering of people across the Midwest and West, plus one in Canada and then Dleg. I did not get much of a feel for urban vs. rural.

I would also postulate that PE's on average have more experience than EITs, since many people get the PE early in their career. Given that more experience usually equals higher pay, this is another factor in the numbers. However, qualitiatively, it seems the average age on this board is around early-mid career, so this might not be a factor in these numbers.

Obviously this isn't most comprehensive salary survey ever, but OTOH I'm not sure such a thing exists. The IEEE salary survey says the average EE salary is over $100k; however a utility power engineer cannot expect to make that on average becuase the Silicon Valley workers skew that average. All I'm saying is, as with everything, these numbers (and my statements derived from them) should be taken with caution and judgement.

 

[Freon]

Mudpuppy,

Well said. And industry plays a big part just like location. Like Oilfield, I work in the petroleum industry, and salaries are booming right now for engineers. (Dleg may even consider trading in his aloha shirts and start eating gumbo!)

Freon, P.E. (returned from exile 48 weeks ago)

Happy New Year to all

 

[frazil]

Great job mudpuppy! I'll have to update my stats (did I post any??)

I would also postulate that PE's on average have more experience than EITs, since many people get the PE early in their career. Given that more experience usually equals higher pay, this is another factor in the numbers. However, qualitiatively, it seems the average age on this board is around early-mid career, so this might not be a factor in these numbers.

I think since most people here are either trying to get their PE or have just gotten it, the amount of experience is probably similar for the EIT and PE categories. Though there are exceptions - people going for a PE late in their career or people looking for help on the FE who posted.

 

[Dleg]

(Dleg may even consider trading in his aloha shirts and start eating gumbo!)

No thanks! I enjoy life. I don't need to go back to the days on end without sleep and $250,000 per day standby charges when my equipment fails or I screw up. Of course, well logging was maybe the exception. Are you oilfield types working a straight workweek these days? Or are you putting in 60+ hours?

 

[Freon]

No thanks! I enjoy life. I don't need to go back to the days on end without sleep and $250,000 per day standby charges when my equipment fails or I screw up. Of course, well logging was maybe the exception. Are you oilfield types working a straight workweek these days? Or are you putting in 60+ hours?

Dleg,

Ten hours a day, five days a week. But compared to Sapper, it is a breeze. I do design work in Houston; Oilfield are you out on the rigs making turns to the right?

Freon

 

[Dleg]

^^WAS. But no, I was a "wireline logging" services contractor. I put instruments down into the holes or blew smaller holes into them, but never drilled any. Those drilling-types have it easy anyway - 12 hour shifts. Us service folks work until we're done, whether that takes a few hours or a few days, and then move right on to the next rig and do it again. And again...

 

[Sschell]

$86K+bonus, benefits and 401k

Cali

mechanical PE

BSME 2002

 

[bigray76]

Time to update my info, we got our raises yesterday:

BS Civil '98

EIT '98

PE '07

LEED AP '07

9-1/2 years in construction management

NJ

Senior Project Estimator

$130k

 

[Oilfield Engineer]

I work in a division office as a drilling engineer. I guess the last time I wasn't on call was 2002. That's tje trouble with 24/365 operations. Currently I oversee 8 rigs in the Rocky Mountains. That big money doesn't come easy, lots of time and stress...

 

[benbo]

Time to update my info, we got our raises yesterday:
BS Civil '98

EIT '98

PE '07

LEED AP '07

9-1/2 years in construction management

NJ

Senior Project Estimator

$130k

That'll help with the new kids!

I have a stupid question, being someone who has never worked in construction. Is a project estimator the person who estimates how much it will cost to build something to decide what to bid on a job? I guess my real question is, what makes someone a good estimator, since you must be one to get over a 10% raise. Is it winning bids and predicting acurately? My guess is that if you make money for your company, then that reflects in your salary. I like that - it seems like pretty close to a pure meritocracy.

I'm too old to change careers, and know nothing about this, but I was curious how it works.

Anybody who knows about this can answer me.

 

[bigray76]

Benbo,

I wear a lot of hats in my role here as an estimator. I manage long term preconstruction efforts - analyzing cost, material availability and lead times, and constructability. Green building is all the rage so I am also expected to help find economical ways to achieve LEED certification. I typically take a project from a conceptual or schematic phase and working closely with the design team go through various iterations of budgeting and value engineering.

My other hat, the more fun hat, is to do lump sum bidding. I work the subs, develop scopes, and harass the architect with endless RFI's.

What makes a good estimator (for a CM anyway)? Good number sense, being able to think outside of the box to find alternate solutions, knowledge of various means and methods, understanding costs and market conditions, being able to visualize what a sketch on the back of a napkin will look like when the project is at 100% CD's.

GC's typically do more lump sum bidding than we do, so it is a slightly different mindset.

I have received raises of 8% - 12% throughout my career here. This past year, I was involved in a lot of projects that made the company a lot of money. On many of my longterm precon jobs, I do more 'business' than pure estimating.