October 2016 Pass rates

[Killua]

People who are high performers *on the PE exam* are removed from the pool of test takers. Doesn't mean they're all high performers on other things although some of them will be. There are test takers who are very good at test taking. I'm not one of those people but I do always manage to pass. Both types are removed from the pool of repeat takers. There are then the people who just almost made it and I think there are quite a few of them from seeing the scores people are posting. They realize it, take a review course (or take one again) and pass the 2nd time. Then there are people who are not so good at taking exams. They take it a 3rd or 4th time. If you think about it the people on the border between passing and failing who fail the first time but pass the second mean that there are people who take 3 or 4 times to pass remaining in pool. This all acts to pull down the retake pass rate.

Another reason is people take exams completely outside their university major. It seemed to be content from my last 2.5 years in university. Need to take a review course and be very serious about it if the exam is completely outside your major, this would sort of be like going back to school and seems like this is what Power exam is like for a lot of people. Although 35% of my exam was outside my education and experience I could still solve most of the questions in that area by looking at how similar problems were solved in the practice exam, having my 2 references I needed the most (I brought others but only used 2 of them and Engineering Unit Conversions by Lindeburg is key for the PE exam across disciplines), and making educated guesses.

I studied around 4 hours for this exam on plane the night before. I've never studied more than around 8 hours for an exam. I wanted to take the review but couldn't. I've spent far far far more time worrying about the results and lurking on here! 

More than 8 hours per day or 8 hours period?

 

[InternetUser]

As a 1 time repeater I can tell you why. People tend to only skim the subjects that they did well in based on their diagnostic results and spend more of their time on subjects and question types they did poorly with. What they don't understand is that a lot of the questions they struggled with wont be on the next test and they should have done a better job refreshing up on the subjects they did well in the first time. I would imagine that the majority of the repeat takers that pass are the ones taking it for the 3rd or fourth time...they've learned this valuable lesson by then.

Cannot agree more and even mentioned it in one of my comments on this forum before. As someone who had to take test more than once I can def tell each test is different. I had completely different topics covered on each exam to the point one had certain topic (multiple questions) and next time around - none! Even though diagnostic printout is good starting point on realizing you weak areas, it doesn't mean people shouldn't study areas they had perfect score for before. Very common mistake

 

[MechEng123]

I don't agree with this for multiple reasons.

I'm sorry, I simply don't understand how you can possibly not agree with this. In any given class or test, you have high performers who are going to excel no matter what, average performers that may or may not pass, and relatively poor performers who aren't likely to succeed, whether it's because they don't study enough, aren't experienced enough, are bad at test taking, etc.

Just by virtue of being in the "second time taker" category, all the high performers and the upper portion of the average performers are completely out of the equation. There is absolutely no way that with a decent sample size that the second time takers pass percentage will be greater than or even somewhat equal to the first time takers. And the statistics back that up across the board.

This isn't supposed to be insulting to those who are second time takers in any way. The ability to pass an 8 hour test really doesn't say much of anything about how someone performs at their job.

 

[NM_Brown_Trout]

I was a repeat take that passed and consistently ranked as an outstanding performer at work.

The whiskey has been flowing like water for the last week, i'll take a couple more for you tonight. Congrats again to all that passed, keep the party going!

Disclaimer: don't take anything I say seriously I just don't give a **** any more and enjoy trolling these threads with joy :thankyou:

 

[Phatso86]

Yeah, the pass rate for the Nuclear PPE is pretty atrocious. I think this year may actually be the highest overall pass rate for nuclear since they switched over to the multiple choice testing. Not that 71% is all that high.

pretty high for repeats

normally in the 30s, no?

 

[Phatso86]

People who are high performers *on the PE exam* are removed from the pool of test takers. Doesn't mean they're all high performers on other things although some of them will be. There are test takers who are very good at test taking. I'm not one of those people but I do always manage to pass. Both types are removed from the pool of repeat takers. There are then the people who just almost made it and I think there are quite a few of them from seeing the scores people are posting. They realize it, take a review course (or take one again) and pass the 2nd time. Then there are people who are not so good at taking exams. They take it a 3rd or 4th time. If you think about it the people on the border between passing and failing who fail the first time but pass the second mean that there are people who take 3 or 4 times to pass remaining in pool. This all acts to pull down the retake pass rate.

Another reason is people take exams completely outside their university major. It seemed to be content from my last 2.5 years in university. Need to take a review course and be very serious about it if the exam is completely outside your major, this would sort of be like going back to school and seems like this is what Power exam is like for a lot of people. Although 35% of my exam was outside my education and experience I could still solve most of the questions in that area by looking at how similar problems were solved in the practice exam, having my 2 references I needed the most (I brought others but only used 2 of them and Engineering Unit Conversions by Lindeburg is key for the PE exam across disciplines), and making educated guesses.

I studied around 4 hours for this exam on plane the night before. I've never studied more than around 8 hours for an exam. I wanted to take the review but couldn't. I've spent far far far more time worrying about the results and lurking on here! 

8hrs study time and passed?

divine intervention perhaps? isn't that cheating? :reading:

 

[RBHeadge PE]

pretty high for repeats

normally in the 30s, no?

That's the highest I've ever seen it. Yes, typically around 30%.

It's not an easy test to begin with, and the required knowledge is quite broad. Much broader than the other disciplines' exams which can have specialized afternoon sections. Most of us end up narrowing our practice out of school and have to relearn a lot of the material for the test.

Maybe ANS finally got the feedback that things had to change a bit? Or this year's crop was just statistically much better prepared?

 

[RBHeadge PE]

You have to remember that some of these tests, such as nuclear have an incredibly low sample size.  For instance, there were 10-total nuclear repeat test takers.  Not sure how many took it last cycle where there was a 0% pass rate, but its likely it was in the single digits.  With such a small sample size, a few results one way or another can massively skew pass rates which is likely a huge reason behind seeing such volatility in some of the results from cycle to cycle.   

I agree that low sample size is part of the issue. NCEES needs 50 test takers every two years to continue to offer the test. The nuclear exam was on probation for years, under the threat of no longer being offered, before it finally passed the threshold in 2010. 

Except for 2014, the repeat takers for nuclear is always 10 or less. But it's the repeat taker pass rate has been consistently low in the multiple-choice era. But even with more takers (20+) Even the first time pass rate is typically worse than the PE exams. I do think though that a big part of it that it is a hard and broad exam.

 

[snickerd3]

in a couple years as the PE is shifted to CBT, these stats wont exist anymore as the test will be offered more often than twice a yr.  

 

[RBHeadge PE]

in a couple years as the PE is shifted to CBT, these stats wont exist anymore as the test will be offered more often than twice a yr.  

That should make for some interesting results threads on the boards

 

[NHPE]

8hrs study time and passed?

divine intervention perhaps? isn't that cheating? :reading:

It was 4 hours for the PE, 15 min for the FE, and no more than 8 hours every for any exam I've ever taken (8 hours was for a math in university). I'm reasonably good at exams to the point I can pass them. Doesn't mean I'm great but I can reliably expect to pass. I was stressed about the PE exam and not being able to take the PE review course for my discipline and then thought about it and realized if I could pass the FE with 15 min studying, had the correct references, knew my references, and flipped through a solved exam --I could probably pass. That's what ended up happening. I ended up spending far more time worrying about exam results than I studied! Not knowing is stressful. Same thing though, decided two weeks before they released it to stop worrying, I probably passed and that's what ended up happening. 

 

[Habib]

It was 4 hours for the PE, 15 min for the FE, and no more than 8 hours every for any exam I've ever taken (8 hours was for a math in university). I'm reasonably good at exams to the point I can pass them. Doesn't mean I'm great but I can reliably expect to pass. I was stressed about the PE exam and not being able to take the PE review course for my discipline and then thought about it and realized if I could pass the FE with 15 min studying, had the correct references, knew my references, and flipped through a solved exam --I could probably pass. That's what ended up happening. I ended up spending far more time worrying about exam results than I studied! Not knowing is stressful. Same thing though, decided two weeks before they released it to stop worrying, I probably passed and that's what ended up happening. 

Congrats!

By the way what is your IQ?

 

[NHPE]

More than 8 hours per day or 8 hours period?

I've never studied more than 8 hours *period* for any exam. 8 hours was for a math exam in university. I studied 4 hours for the PE and 15 min for the FE (flipping through equation book in that case). I had the right references for the PE exam, I knew how to generally solve most questions (65% were of the type that were covered directly in my major) and an idea about how to solve the rest as well as having the equations to do it. A lot of the questions that weren't covered directly in my major could be calculated other ways (through other disciplines and the sciences that I did take) as well as understanding the problem solving process behind the sample test solutions. I spent 3 hours flipping through the solution steps of a solved exam and 1 hour making sure I knew where everything was in my references. They're 6 minute questions so they're incredibly complex so the framework for solving them is not too complicated. There were a few I did not know, of course, and more that I guessed on but I passed. 

A large part of why I spent so much time post-exam worried about the results is reading about how much people study for the exam on here. I think it's great really because if you study lots you learn lots but I can't do that for an exam where the content is basically anything from your major. Hats off to people that can, I was overwhelmed by what I would have to study, never have studied more than 8 hours before, and decided I could pass it with what I had.

 

[NHPE]

Congrats!

By the way what is your IQ?

Hah. When they had me tested in elementary school it was 142 but some of the puzzles were taking awhile so I asked if we could stop early  We did and that was final score. it's the same thing here, I can't bother to study for the periods you all are able to do and hats off for it, really. It's great because if you can study for as long as people do on here you can learn a whole new discipline which is really great. Lifetime learning is a wonderful thing. 

 

[NHPE]

I've never studied more than 8 hours *period* for any exam. 8 hours was for a math exam in university. I studied 4 hours for the PE and 15 min for the FE (flipping through equation book in that case). I had the right references for the PE exam, I knew how to generally solve most questions (65% were of the type that were covered directly in my major) and an idea about how to solve the rest as well as having the equations to do it. A lot of the questions that weren't covered directly in my major could be calculated other ways (through other disciplines and the sciences that I did take) as well as understanding the problem solving process behind the sample test solutions. I spent 3 hours flipping through the solution steps of a solved exam and 1 hour making sure I knew where everything was in my references. They're 6 minute questions so they're incredibly complex so the framework for solving them is not too complicated. There were a few I did not know, of course, and more that I guessed on but I passed. 

A large part of why I spent so much time post-exam worried about the results is reading about how much people study for the exam on here. I think it's great really because if you study lots you learn lots but I can't do that for an exam where the content is basically anything from your major. Hats off to people that can, I was overwhelmed by what I would have to study, never have studied more than 8 hours before, and decided I could pass it with what I had.

meant to say they're six minute questions so they're not incredibly complex....although a few of them were fairly complex...I left those till the end and I know I didn't get all of them.

 

[Phatso86]

It was 4 hours for the PE, 15 min for the FE, and no more than 8 hours every for any exam I've ever taken (8 hours was for a math in university). I'm reasonably good at exams to the point I can pass them. Doesn't mean I'm great but I can reliably expect to pass. I was stressed about the PE exam and not being able to take the PE review course for my discipline and then thought about it and realized if I could pass the FE with 15 min studying, had the correct references, knew my references, and flipped through a solved exam --I could probably pass. That's what ended up happening. I ended up spending far more time worrying about exam results than I studied! Not knowing is stressful. Same thing though, decided two weeks before they released it to stop worrying, I probably passed and that's what ended up happening. 

I suppose it's more about being bold than anything else.

The civil PE test I took was a joke. But I rather had overstudied than understudied. Dunno if I could have passed it by practicing the basics, but completely unwilling to find out.

 

[NHPE]

I suppose it's more about being bold than anything else.

The civil PE test I took was a joke. But I rather had overstudied than understudied. Dunno if I could have passed it by practicing the basics, but completely unwilling to find out.

I think that's part of it (the general subject this thread is about). There are people who study very hard to make sure they pass even though they would most likely pass it anyway like yourself. The exam's aren't so difficult if they're generally in your area. It's risk aversion or a common engineering trait where you want to have all angles covered. I've always been like I said with exams but have always wanted to have all angles covered professionally.

People who are likely to pass it are probably more likely to take the review courses etc first time (or study independently) around which is why their posted passing  rates on the review course sites are so high, even though such people would have passed the exam regardless. It's one of those things where you can't really know after the fact...but it does help sell review courses and get us all stressed out on EB.