Non-Theists More Intelligent than Theists?

[mudpuppy]

Maybe he'd say, "So THIS is what the inside of a black hole looks like!"

 

[ptatohed]

What will be Stephen Hawking's expression when God explains to him why he was able to live for 52 years after being diagnosed with ALS?

[SIZE=10.5pt]He'd start by asking: Which god are you? Is there only one of you, or are there more gods or goddesses? Why did you not present yourself to us on earth? Why did belief in you take so much faith with no evidence? Why are there hundreds and hundreds of different religious beliefs on earth, each making incompatible claims? Are any of them correct? Which one? Why does religious belief vary so much with geographic location and time? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]That's of course, if Stephen even made it as far as god. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If the theoretical god you are referring to is Allah, and Stephen did not make the proper propitiations per the Quran, then Stephen would be in hell with his skin on fire, burning off, and then getting new skin so it can start all over. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If the theoretical god you are referring to is the god of the Judaic-Christian faith, and Stephen did not make the proper atonements per the scriptures, then Stephen would be in a fiery lake of eternal burning sulfur with weeping and gnashing of teeth. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Or, if this theoretical god is the god of the Jewish faith, then cool, at worst Stephen would only be in Sheol (a resting place for the dead within the earth, not a place of punishment) because the lovely comforting concept of Hell was not introduced until gentle Jesus came in the New Testament.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Or, maybe per Hindu beliefs, he’d simply be reincarnated as an animal or a human of a lower or higher caste. [/SIZE]

 

[NJmike PE]

 

[NJmike PE]

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/a5515bdbad/stepehen-hawking-vs-speak-n-spell-from-aaron-merke

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

What will be Stephen Hawking's expression when God explains to him why he was able to live for 52 years after being diagnosed with ALS?

[SIZE=10.5pt]He'd start by asking: Which god are you? Is there only one of you, or are there more gods or goddesses? Why did you not present yourself to us on earth? Why did belief in you take so much faith with no evidence? Why are there hundreds and hundreds of different religious beliefs on earth, each making incompatible claims? Are any of them correct? Which one? Why does religious belief vary so much with geographic location and time? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]That's of course, if Stephen even made it as far as god. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If the theoretical god you are referring to is Allah, and Stephen did not make the proper propitiations per the Quran, then Stephen would be in hell with his skin on fire, burning off, and then getting new skin so it can start all over. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If the theoretical god you are referring to is the god of the Judaic-Christian faith, and Stephen did not make the proper atonements per the scriptures, then Stephen would be in a fiery lake of eternal burning sulfur with weeping and gnashing of teeth. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Or, if this theoretical god is the god of the Jewish faith, then cool, at worst Stephen would only be in Sheol (a resting place for the dead within the earth, not a place of punishment) because the lovely comforting concept of Hell was not introduced until gentle Jesus came in the New Testament.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Or, maybe per Hindu beliefs, he’d simply be reincarnated as an animal or a human of a lower or higher caste. [/SIZE]

I'm offended you didn't include His Noodly Eminence, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

[engineergurl]

What will be Stephen Hawking's expression when God explains to him why he was able to live for 52 years after being diagnosed with ALS?

He'd start by asking: Which god are you? Is there only one of you, or are there more gods or goddesses? Why did you not present yourself to us on earth? Why did belief in you take so much faith with no evidence? Why are there hundreds and hundreds of different religious beliefs on earth, each making incompatible claims? Are any of them correct? Which one? Why does religious belief vary so much with geographic location and time?

That's of course, if Stephen even made it as far as god.

If the theoretical god you are referring to is Allah, and Stephen did not make the proper propitiations per the Quran, then Stephen would be in hell with his skin on fire, burning off, and then getting new skin so it can start all over.

If the theoretical god you are referring to is the god of the Judaic-Christian faith, and Stephen did not make the proper atonements per the scriptures, then Stephen would be in a fiery lake of eternal burning sulfur with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Or, if this theoretical god is the god of the Jewish faith, then cool, at worst Stephen would only be in Sheol (a resting place for the dead within the earth, not a place of punishment) because the lovely comforting concept of Hell was not introduced until gentle Jesus came in the New Testament.

Or, maybe per Hindu beliefs, he’d simply be reincarnated as an animal or a human of a lower or higher caste.

Actually, most Christians believe that God forgives everything, especially ignorance (since its not a sin, lol). The lack of belief doesn't condemn one to hell. The fire and brimstone threats sort of went wayside a while ago.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Actually, most Christians believe that God forgives everything, especially ignorance (since its not a sin, lol). The lack of belief doesn't condemn one to hell. The fire and brimstone threats sort of went wayside a while ago.

I think stuff like this hurts religion more than "provable" stuff (like Egyptians thinking that Ra drug the sun into the sky every morning). The Bible is quite explicit in condemning sodomy and homosexual relationships. But then the Pope comes out of left field and says "there's more important shit to think about" [paraphrasing...obviously]. Then, all of a sudden, Christianity (or at least Catholics) thinks it's OK to be gay. I honestly don't care one way or another, but religious folk tend to be a little two-faced on the subject.

 

[engineergurl]

Actually, most Christians believe that God forgives everything, especially ignorance (since its not a sin, lol). The lack of belief doesn't condemn one to hell. The fire and brimstone threats sort of went wayside a while ago.

I think stuff like this hurts religion more than "provable" stuff (like Egyptians thinking that Ra drug the sun into the sky every morning). The Bible is quite explicit in condemning sodomy and homosexual relationships. But then the Pope comes out of left field and says "there's more important shit to think about" [paraphrasing...obviously]. Then, all of a sudden, Christianity (or at least Catholics) thinks it's OK to be gay. I honestly don't care one way or another, but religious folk tend to be a little two-faced on the subject.

I think that returns to the difference between spirituality and organized religion. Our generation is much more likely to question the rules. I admit that over the last 6 or 7 years, as I have matured, I have become more accepting of things that I previously questioned. I think it shows that interpretations evolve, the written word is only as strong as the majority that believes in it, and that humans we aren't perfect but have to figure out on our own what God's point was.

We weren't put here on earth to judge. Unfortunately, I think many religious people forget that, I know I sometimes do. I personally feel like if I acknowledge my own faults, it gives me the opportunity to correct and improve and in doing that I am rewarded in this life. It gives me warm fuzzy feelings to know I have improved as a person. I also have faith that the better person I am, the better what is to come will be.

Again, please remember that I identify with several different practices, so I may not be the best person to post here. Much of what Dex has said, I don't always disagree. I also think if I haven't had my own experiences, I would probably agree with mp.

 

[ptatohed]

[SIZE=10.5pt]He'd start by asking: Which god are you? Is there only one of you, or are there more gods or goddesses? Why did you not present yourself to us on earth? Why did belief in you take so much faith with no evidence? Why are there hundreds and hundreds of different religious beliefs on earth, each making incompatible claims? Are any of them correct? Which one? Why does religious belief vary so much with geographic location and time? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]That's of course, if Stephen even made it as far as god. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If the theoretical god you are referring to is Allah, and Stephen did not make the proper propitiations per the Quran, then Stephen would be in hell with his skin on fire, burning off, and then getting new skin so it can start all over. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If the theoretical god you are referring to is the god of the Judaic-Christian faith, and Stephen did not make the proper atonements per the scriptures, then Stephen would be in a fiery lake of eternal burning sulfur with weeping and gnashing of teeth. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Or, if this theoretical god is the god of the Jewish faith, then cool, at worst Stephen would only be in Sheol (a resting place for the dead within the earth, not a place of punishment) because the lovely comforting concept of Hell was not introduced until gentle Jesus came in the New Testament.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Or, maybe per Hindu beliefs, he’d simply be reincarnated as an animal or a human of a lower or higher caste. [/SIZE]

I'm offended you didn't include His Noodly Eminence, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

He'd start by asking: Which god are you? Is there only one of you, or are there more gods or goddesses? Why did you not present yourself to us on earth? Why did belief in you take so much faith with no evidence? Why are there hundreds and hundreds of different religious beliefs on earth, each making incompatible claims? Are any of them correct? Which one? Why does religious belief vary so much with geographic location and time?

That's of course, if Stephen even made it as far as god.

If the theoretical god you are referring to is Allah, and Stephen did not make the proper propitiations per the Quran, then Stephen would be in hell with his skin on fire, burning off, and then getting new skin so it can start all over.

If the theoretical god you are referring to is the god of the Judaic-Christian faith, and Stephen did not make the proper atonements per the scriptures, then Stephen would be in a fiery lake of eternal burning sulfur with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Or, if this theoretical god is the god of the Jewish faith, then cool, at worst Stephen would only be in Sheol (a resting place for the dead within the earth, not a place of punishment) because the lovely comforting concept of Hell was not introduced until gentle Jesus came in the New Testament.

Or, maybe per Hindu beliefs, he’d simply be reincarnated as an animal or a human of a lower or higher caste.

Actually, most Christians believe that God forgives everything, especially ignorance (since its not a sin, lol). The lack of belief doesn't condemn one to hell. The fire and brimstone threats sort of went wayside a while ago.

With all due respect eg, I completely disagree with you on this. I know enough Christians, I listen to enough Christian radio (an Atheist listing to Christian radio, sounds weird, I know), I visit enough Christian websites, and I have read enough of the New Testament to know, the basis for the Christian theology is that believing in and accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior is the only way into heaven. It seems explicitly clear to me from the NT. This is actually the first time I have ever heard anyone say anything but. Why do you think belief in Jesus is not a requirement for entry into Heaven (per Christianity)? I know goodal will disagree with you.

I think stuff like this hurts religion more than "provable" stuff (like Egyptians thinking that Ra drug the sun into the sky every morning). The Bible is quite explicit in condemning sodomy and homosexual relationships. But then the Pope comes out of left field and says "there's more important shit to think about" [paraphrasing...obviously]. Then, all of a sudden, Christianity (or at least Catholics) thinks it's OK to be gay. I honestly don't care one way or another, but religious folk tend to be a little two-faced on the subject.

If I may play Devil's advocate, and please correct me if I am wrong, I think the NT is nearly silent on the topic of homosexuality, right? And since the NT is supposed to supersede the OT's laws/rules/prohibitions (such as not needing to stone your kids for misbehaving anymore, you can now eat shellfish, circumcision is no longer required, etc.), perhaps it could be argued that the NT also lifted the prohibition of homosexuality? Just asking.

I think stuff like this hurts religion more than "provable" stuff (like Egyptians thinking that Ra drug the sun into the sky every morning). The Bible is quite explicit in condemning sodomy and homosexual relationships. But then the Pope comes out of left field and says "there's more important shit to think about" [paraphrasing...obviously]. Then, all of a sudden, Christianity (or at least Catholics) thinks it's OK to be gay. I honestly don't care one way or another, but religious folk tend to be a little two-faced on the subject.

I think that returns to the difference between spirituality and organized religion. Our generation is much more likely to question the rules. I admit that over the last 6 or 7 years, as I have matured, I have become more accepting of things that I previously questioned. I think it shows that interpretations evolve, the written word is only as strong as the majority that believes in it, and that humans we aren't perfect but have to figure out on our own what God's point was.

We weren't put here on earth to judge. Unfortunately, I think many religious people forget that, I know I sometimes do. I personally feel like if I acknowledge my own faults, it gives me the opportunity to correct and improve and in doing that I am rewarded in this life. It gives me warm fuzzy feelings to know I have improved as a person. I also have faith that the better person I am, the better what is to come will be.

Again, please remember that I identify with several different practices, so I may not be the best person to post here. Much of what Dex has said, I don't always disagree. I also think if I haven't had my own experiences, I would probably agree with mp.

But not ptatohed?

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Theists (with few exceptions) are hurt by organized religion in general. This is especially true for Judeo-Christians. Christians, Jews, Protestants and Muslims all believe in the same God. The only difference is which holy texts they choose to believe in and which prophets they choose to follow. For the most part, they each believe that the texts/prophets they have chosen are correct and anybody who chooses different texts/prophets are wrong and going to some sort of hell. This is particularly problematic because most of the texts were written during the same time period by people professing to be inspired by divine intervention. You literally can't believe all of the texts because they are contradictory. If they were all written with divine intervention, how do you reconcile the differences? This is why fundamentalists infuriate me. You cannot state facts...you can only state what you believe to be the facts. But "facts" by their very definition do not require belief...they just are. Similarly, atheists infuriate me because they try to state as fact that there is no god (lowercase). This also cannot be proven, therefore it cannot be fact.

I also don't buy into religion as a substitute for morals. Sure, there are some good parables in the bible that can instill morals in people. There are far more secular parables that can do the same thing. And good parenting, mentoring, and education can do far more to instill morals than dragging kids to church to hear about fire and brimstone if they don't brush their teeth at night. Plus, in moral capacity, I think Judeo-Christian relations fall far behind other religions such as Buddhism. I don't think there is a war in history fought over Buddhism. How many Christian faiths can claim that?

 

[Lumber Jim]

Ptatohed, how can you completely disagree with EG? With your knowledge of the NT you must have come across "father forgive them for they know not what they do"

 

[ptatohed]

Ptatohed, how can you completely disagree with EG? With your knowledge of the NT you must have come across "father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Well, I guess I said I 'completely' disagree, because she said 'most'. Maybe I am wrong - I don't know the exact statistics - but at least in my contact with Christians, the vast majority subscribe to what Jesus says in John 14:6 " Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me'. " That is the whole core of Christianity, right? It seems to me that if anyone can be saved without Jesus, what was the point for the whole exercise of God coming down for our sins, living as a man, dying, rising, blah blah?

 

[P-E]

Ptatohed, how can you completely disagree with EG? With your knowledge of the NT you must have come across "father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Well, I guess I said I 'completely' disagree, because she said 'most'. Maybe I am wrong - I don't know the exact statistics - but at least in my contact with Christians, the vast majority subscribe to what Jesus says in John 14:6 " Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me'. " That is the whole core of Christianity, right? It seems to me that if anyone can be saved without Jesus, what was the point for the whole exercise of God coming down for our sins, living as a man, dying, rising, blah blah?

You should check out Luke 8:17.

 

[engineergurl]

You literally can't believe all of the texts because they are contradictory. If they were all written with divine intervention, how do you reconcile the differences?

The Torah, Old testament of the Bible and Quran actually don't contradict as much as most think. I could say that the differences reconcile themselves in that they are simlar enough that perhaps the divine intervention was the same for all but heard differently by man.

I don't think there is a war in history fought over Buddhism.

In recent years there have been several riots supposedly instigated by monks in protest of other religions. In history, active supporters of plenty of wars (not necessarily "over religion" though some were.)

 

[YMZ PE]

I think the only reason there haven't been any wars over Buddhism (unless you count territorial battles over temples and shrines) is that it's more of a disorganized religion than an organized one. There's no unifying scriptures or practices within the same school, nor even a consensus on whether gods exist and matter. Plenty of Buddhists believe the same philosophy as other organized religions that if you don't believe in their canon, you're going to their version of hell.

That's man-made religion for you. Spirituality and faith are an entirely separate matter, IMO.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

 

[Supe]

You've got some balls, Dex...

...coming in here and bashing unicorns like that.

 

[Lumber Jim]

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Bastards can't even wipe a minotaur's ass without stabbing them. Even if their farts power the new generation of cars, bastards can go to hell.