How do you determine speed limits on county roads?

[Dark Knight]

The road that leads to the subdivision I live is being used as a speed trap by the city police. It is a 4 lanes road and a wide median with bushes that the police loves to use as a cover to get people speeding (meaning going over 55 mph). I drive on other roads that have the same speed limit, 45 mph, and one of them is just a two lanes road.

I am not sure but I have the feeling that the speed limit is not correct at the 4 lanes road leading to my subdivision. Unfortunately for me am not a subject matter expert but it happens that am a member of an engineering board that does have subject matter experts.

What is the criteria when deciding speed limits? How a two lanes road can have the same speed limit as a wide median divided 4 lanes road?

For the record, I have not being caught speeding because am always aware the police is there. I set the cruise control to 50 and that is it. Am just tired of the preaching of the police Chief in the city at the social media outlets and am looking for a valid argument just to throw at the mix. If I do not have it, so be it. But if I do have one, would love to put it in the open.

 

[MA_PE]

Check the mototr vehicle laws that govern your areas.  I know in MA the speed limit for a given raod is is whatever the posted limiti is.  If it's not posted then the speed limit is controlled by the devleopment of the the area. 

The specific speeding laws in MA for unposted areas is: 

1) if a motor vehicle is operated on a divided highway outside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding fifty miles per hour for a distance of a quarter of a mile, or

(2) on any other way outside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding forty miles per hour for a distance of a quarter of a mile, or

(3) inside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding thirty miles per hour for a distance of one-eighth of a mile, or

(4) within a school zone which may be established by a city or town as provided in section two of chapter eighty-five at a rate of speed exceeding twenty miles per hour.

I did a quick google search for Orlando FL speed limit regulations and found thisfrom Florida DOT:  http://www.fdot.gov/traffic/speedzone/speed_zoning_manual_complete_03_17_2011.pdf

I found it interesting on Page 9-1 that is states (and is underlined) "Altered speed limits established solely on the basis of individual or group opinions are considerd contrary to the intent of this statute."

Hope that helps.

 

[jeb6294]

I'm by no means an expert either, but I didn't think there was a standard for the low end of speed limits. Max speeds can be figured based on the road, but if they want to say the limit is 35mph even though the road is capable of handling 55mph, they can do it.

 

[csb]

The state typically has a statutory speed limit that is the assumed speed limit if no sign exists. For areas with signs other than statutory, a speed study must be on file. This is also according to what MA_PE posted.

4. TRAFFIC ENGINEERING INVESTIGATIONS Florida Statutes require an engineering and traffic investigation to be conducted for any alteration of speed limits, mandated in Sections 316.187 and 316.189 F.S. These investigations would include, but are not limited to, the measurements of vehicular speed and other traffic engineering evaluations contained in this Manual. As an alternative, Section 5, (Equipment, conditions, and Data Collection) and Section 14, (Speed Zone Locations) of this Manual give an explanation for exceptions to the practice of collecting and analyzing speed data.

If people are routinely being ticketed, it would indicate that the 85th percentile is the higher speed and the speed limit is set too low. I would ask for a speed study on the road. 

 

[Dark Knight]

Based on the responses I would say we are dead in the water. Looks like the limit is whatever they say it is (45 mph). The speed study is an option but that specific span of the road is a gold mine for the city. They feast on the drivers week in and week out. The police may take a week or two off just to cool down but then come back with a vengeance. Saturdays are days of massacre. They have two patrols on the area and l have seen a third one lately at another location.

To whom a person should request a speed study? If it is to the city I can tell it will be a lost cause. The city major, who is known for being a word class jerk and has a reign of terror there, it is not going to allow a speed study to happen. I have been told the the traffic tickets are one of the main sources of income for for the city.  :blink:  Cannot say that is true or false but if one button is a good sample, yes it is.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MA_PE]

Is the speed limit posted or does it change depending on the whim of the ticketing officer?

Speed traps have been around since the beginning of time and they are a significant source of income for many small jusidictions.  Fighting the ticket (or the practice) is typically a lost cause.  Just ask the red light camera bandit.

 

[Road Guy]

On a local road it comes down to politics but several things should go into the speed limit on a road are:

1. The Design Speed of the Road

2. The Traffic Counts, including truck % on that road

3. Accident History

4. Whether the road is Rural or Urban (curb & gutter or a paved / grassed shoulder)

There was a state road that went through our County (6 lane road) the speed limit was properly set at 55 MPH, but one intersection (with a signal) had a higher number of accidents with fatalities so the County sent me to lobby the State to lower it to 45 to appease the citizens who thought the only reason for the accidents were the 55 mph speed limit and not the people that died running the red light..

 

[Dark Knight]

Is the speed limit posted or does it change depending on the whim of the ticketing officer?

It is posted at 45 mph.

 

[jeb6294]

When I worked for the county here we would get requests for speed studies, but they were always requested because someone wanted the speed limit lowered.

There's a 4-lane divided highway that cuts across southern Ohio from Cincinnati to WV, SR32.  There are still some intersections so it's not quite like an interstate, but it is certainly a 55mph road at the very least and there are some places where the limit is even higher now.  There are a few sections that are notorious speed traps where the speed limit will abruptly drop to 35mph while you drive through "town".  In reality, the actual town is a few miles off the main road but their border reaches the highway and they use traffic tickets as their main source of income every year.

 

[ptatohed]

In CA it is much like what csb said.  If there is no posting, then the speed limit is assumed to be 55 mph.  CA Veh Code 22349.  If there is a posted speed, the posted speed must be justified by a Traffic and Engineering Survey (TES).  See VC 40803 and 40802.  You have a right to request the TES from the governing agency.        

 

[Slugger926]

Based on the responses I would say we are dead in the water. Looks like the limit is whatever they say it is (45 mph). The speed study is an option but that specific span of the road is a gold mine for the city. They feast on the drivers week in and week out. The police may take a week or two off just to cool down but then come back with a vengeance. Saturdays are days of massacre. They have two patrols on the area and l have seen a third one lately at another location.

To whom a person should request a speed study? If it is to the city I can tell it will be a lost cause. The city major, who is known for being a word class jerk and has a reign of terror there, it is not going to allow a speed study to happen. I have been told the the traffic tickets are one of the main sources of income for for the city.  :blink:  Cannot say that is true or false but if one button is a good sample, yes it is.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

I would petition the city to change the officers title to Roadway Tax Collector, and have a wimpy looking uniform for them.  Change the definition from traffic fines to traffic tax.  Then only allow Roadway Tax Collectors enforce traffic laws.  If you want to speed, you can pay the speeding tax.  This is how it should be since it is an arbitrary tax not given equally to everyone, especially those in the good ole boys club.

The better way is either get elected on the City Council, or contact the city council and voice concerns.  Have everyone do this until it is such a headache that they change it.  That is how it was done in my current city.