Home Improvement/Repair Questions

[ChebyshevII PE PMP]

Yeah, it definitely sounds like you have a loose connection somewhere. I would start by looking at all the wire nuts in the circuit and making sure none of them are loose.

Hopefully it’s not a punctured wire...

 

[blybrook PE]

Depending on how the plugs (recepticals) were wired, you could have a bad receptical. I've seen several that were stab wired lose connection or have bad assembly. Some just go bad. 

If the circuit isn't popping out the gfci isn't tripped, there's a lose /bad connection. I doubt it's a wire nut unless it's a recent repair; they don't tend to go bad. 

Fastest way to check is to use a plug in style wiring tester. Similar to the following:



If it blinks or doesn't show connection, mark it with tape and move to the next receptical upstream (closer to circuit panel). The first one that has power is the first to check, then move back downstream checking each one individually. 

That's how I've diagnosed electrical circuits in the past. Beats ripping out more components than necessary. 

 

[wilheldp_PE]

Further weirdness, Jack yells down and say the fan was back on for a few seconds. Went upstairs and sure enough, the ceiling fans were all spinning down. Also found a couple outlets that were out too.

Went to the basement and started flipping breakers and had the boys tell me what stuff went out (except for the big appliance breakers). There was one breaker that didn’t seem to do anything, but the one right below it killed the closet light in Jacks room so it makes me think they’re on breaker #12.

Breaker seems to fine and tested it and it showed 120V. Tried googling for some ideas and a few places talked about checking outlets for loose connections, i.e. power is coming in but not getting out and kills everything downstream. 

Sounds like a floating neutral.  Do you have a multimeter that you could use to test the voltage across one of the non-working receptacles?  When the neutral is not properly tied to ground, the voltage reference can fluctuate, and you can get lower than normal voltages.  This could allow the lights to work, since they are low load and can normally light up at lower voltages.  But once you turn the fan motors on, it could cause the voltage to sag low enough that nothing works.

 

[jeb6294]

I've got my crappy meter that came free from Harbor Freight...but hey, it works. I opened the panel and tested the breaker and it was showing a steady 120V, but I did not check any of the outlets.

 

[Road Guy]

Both my outdoor outlets are not working, I need to find my meter, but I cant find which breaker they are on on the circuit panel (none are tripped)- I am wondering if there is a GFI somewhere they are tied to that is tripped? 

 

[blybrook PE]

Both my outdoor outlets are not working, I need to find my meter, but I cant find which breaker they are on on the circuit panel (none are tripped)- I am wondering if there is a GFI somewhere they are tied to that is tripped? 

Most likely tied to a tripped GFI in the house. Time to start searching rooms to find the outlet. 

I've also seen exterior outlets run thru a switch in a utility closet. This was before GFI's were really popular and the owner wanted to control the lights from inside. 

 

[mudpuppy]

Most likely tied to a tripped GFI in the house. Time to start searching rooms to find the outlet. 

This.  Mine is in an outlet in the ceiling of my garage.  I never would have found it if I hadn't tripped it with my outlet tester (similar to the one pictured above) and heard it trip from the laundry room.

 

[Road Guy]

Whats weird is that the outside house lights work, - I thought they were on the same link, but I could be wrong.

Previous owners also had a shit ton of low voltage lighting around the house, I noticed that none of it is working, I cant beleive all the bulbs went out at the same time, I am thinking maybe they are on the same circuit? The wiring for them is also a complete mess, not sure how my "inspector" missed that when we bought the house, its way up under the porch and looks like something clark griswold would do - I am just going to try and track that back and disconnect it.

I really just want to rip all that shit out, because those replacement bulbs are crazy expensive - I think I am just going to buy some solar powered ones and put in a a few places around the house, previous owners had this place lit up like the white house

 

[mudpuppy]

GFCIs are to protect people from being electrocuted, so they may not be required for outdoor lighting since you're not normally touching them (I'm not an NEC expert by any means though).  So there's a good chance your outdoor area lighting is on a separate circuit.

Where's the transformer for your low voltage lighting?  It might just be plugged into an outdoor outlet.  But if it's hard-wired, there's a good chance it's on the same circuit as the outlets.  It's possible the transformer or low-voltage wiring shorted and that tripped your outdoor outlet GFCI.  I don't think there's much in the way of codes for low-voltage lighting wiring so there might not have been anything for your inspector to point out code-wise.

 

[Road Guy]

I ran into spiders and then got out from under the deck (low deck)! So I couldnt see where it was powered from

I just figured they would point it out, since it wasnt even enclosed - it was just a bundle of wires tacked up under the deck - not even in any kind of box - Ill try and grab a pic if I get back under there

 

[blybrook PE]

Your kids are home right now, send one of them under there to get the photos and trace the wires!

 

[jeb6294]

House is a 2-story built in the mid-70’s. Would it be safe to assume that the wiring would have been brought up from the panel in the basement to one of the outlets first and then from there to the rest of the outlets/ceiling fixtures?

Although, the smaller bedroom/office doesn’t have a ceiling fixture and the switch operates one outlet so I wonder if the rest of the rooms used to be that way and the idiot PO added the ceiling fixtures. You know, the guy who cut the ends off an extension cord for the wiring to the ceiling fan in Jacks room rather than make the 10 minute drive to Home Depot. 

 

[blybrook PE]

Mid 70's construction is less likely to have a stab wired outlet, unless the PO put them in. It is a safe assumption that the wiring goes from the panel to the first device, then branches off, however, there could be any number of junction boxes hidden in the walls. It is also possible that there used to be a switch controlling the outlets, or portion of the outlets (such as the top or bottom half only) and the switch removal wasn't re-wired correctly (or the outlet for that matter). 70's construction could have the lights on separate circuits from the outlets, but that's not guaranteed.

Side note, the first round of stab wired outlets (early to mid 90's) held the wires in place with metal springs, these failed constantly and caused a few fires. The current version has internal metal plates that are secured by tightening the side screws.

I've seen all sorts of scary home wiring configurations (I was a residential electrical apprentice in the 90's through middle / high school).

 

[jeb6294]

I’ve opened the 3 outlets that I know about and they’re all on the side screws. Multimeter says none of them are getting any power. This was all just a quick check during a lunch break though. Unfortunately, I’m on a webex meeting all day today. 

 

[jeb6294]

So right or wrong, I MacGyvered a couple old extension cords together and ran it from one good outlet in the office to the outlet that was out. Ceiling fans all started working again. For $0.39 apiece, I might just start replacing the upstairs receptacles. 

 

[blybrook PE]

It's worth it to upgrade the outlets regardless. Now you will have to figure out WHERE the power is getting disconnected at. Just be careful with the extension cord fix, you've potentially re-energized the dead circuit and could have re-energized a fault / short that initially caused something to go kaput. If there is a short, it could be a fire waiting to happen.

I would take the wires off of the re-energized outlet and only connect those needed for the fans to prevent issues elsewhere. 

 

[jeb6294]

Extension cord got unplugged. It worked for a while but then two breakers started tripping. 

 

[jeb6294]

WT actual F?!?! Okay, so I unplugged the franken-cord yesterday afternoon because it was making two other breakers trip. Head upstairs to go to bed and don't even bother trying to turn the light on, but then notice a bit of a breeze...THE FAN IS STILL RUNNING. Do some checking and now all the ceiling fans/lights are working. I did not do any checking on the outlets yets. Got work stuff today, but later I'm going to trip a couple breakers and verify which circuit the fans/outlets are on and start replacing receptacles.

 

[kevo_55]

Whoa!

I'd call an electrician. Fixing something like this is way over my head.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

WT actual F?!?! Okay, so I unplugged the franken-cord yesterday afternoon because it was making two other breakers trip. Head upstairs to go to bed and don't even bother trying to turn the light on, but then notice a bit of a breeze...THE FAN IS STILL RUNNING. Do some checking and now all the ceiling fans/lights are working. I did not do any checking on the outlets yets. Got work stuff today, but later I'm going to trip a couple breakers and verify which circuit the fans/outlets are on and start replacing receptacles.

One extension cord plugged into one outlet should not cause two different circuit breakers to trip...no matter how much current it's drawing.  It sounds like you might have some double-wired circuits (i.e., circuits fed from 2 breakers).