Are Engineers Expendable

[benbo]

rppearso -

Are you only looking for work in Alaska, or are you willing to move? I'm thinking you might have better luck if you look nationwide, possibly Texas or Louisiana mught be a better fit for your degree.

 

[rppearso]

rppearso -Are you only looking for work in Alaska, or are you willing to move? I'm thinking you might have better luck if you look nationwide, possibly Texas or Louisiana mught be a better fit for your degree.

I have been looking pretty much in alaska but have started looking state side, my entire family is up here so it would be hard to leave but now that I know the situation if I were to actually become unemployed I would have to start looking state side right away.

 

[Guest]

I am not trying to come off wrong and the guy with seabee in his avatar made good points

IlPadrino always has good points. Except for the one about software engineers. He's wrong on that one!

for me getting swore at and sleep deprived was not my bag, im all about working hard but hazing does not work for me thats just a personal choise.

You are correct - military service is not for everyone. I entered as enlisted (E1) even though I had two scholarships to help out with college because I was raised to believe that military service came above personal benefit. My dad was a first seargent in the air force and very tough - going thru boot camp and serving my time in the service was 'par for the course' in my eyes since that was how I was raised. On the other hand, I didn't serve my full duty time because of a medical condition - I received a medical discharge after spending much of my time on light duty. Again, the circumstances behind what happened were messed up and my medical care could have been better and even prevented some of the issues I had (and still have today) but I have no regrets. We are only afforded one life and you have to make the best of it.

I agree you just have to keep plugging along but I figured with 5 years of good solid engineering design experience I would not still be in the same situation as I was when I first graduated when it comes to getting job offers, I feel like im having to go through the same gyrations as someone with 0 years of experence, with all the resumes I put in I would think I would be getting a least a few interviews and possibly a few job offers so I could pick and choose but instead I still feel like I just graduated or an indentured servant lol. Maybe I really need the PE on the resume and 7-10 years before I can start getting call backs and offers without having to put out 30 resumes for one call back (if im lucky, which I have not been thus far).

Based on what you say here, it seems that one should offer 'respect' based on a license or degree. I can promise you that is simply NOT going to happen. People 'respect' you when you have something to offer. Period.

I worked as a regulator for a state agency for ten years and obtained my PE license during that period. I can promise you that 10 yrs worth of experience and a PE license did NOTHING to earn respect from potential employers. Sure I would get phone calls, interviews, and empty promises but when the time came to actually getting that new job it took me nearly three years of searching. I finally matched with my job in the power/utility industry - the job that I have now. These people hired me and offered 'respect' because I could navigate the problems they presented AND offer solutions.

I think you need to be careful about how you perceive respect from potential employers. In fact, I would take it a step further to say that YOU must be able to market yourself in a way that shows off what you have to offer. You cannot sit back and think that any amount of education or licensure will entitle you to this respect.

I understand your disappointment - I have been there. I offer this advice to you - take it as you will. As a person of free will, you can choose to make a better life for yourself and continue to strive forward or you can sit back and believe you are held vicitim to any set of limitations that you perceive. You, and you alone have the free will and choice to fail or succeed. Your education and license are only tools on that path.

In closing, and not to :deadhorse: , I would like to offer two quotes my dad used to say to me:

1. Life isn't fair.

2. Work isn't for you to like - it is for you to do.

My dad was right on those two points .... but what he failed to comprehend was that my attitude has made all the difference as to how I rise to meet the challenge.

I wish you luck with your challenges!

JR

 

[wilheldp_PE]

now I am getting the same posts that I do on other forums, as engineers and educated people I think we can do better.

If you get the same kind of posts on every forum you join, maybe you should realize that it's you...not us.

 

[rppearso]

I am not trying to come off wrong and the guy with seabee in his avatar made good points

IlPadrino always has good points. Except for the one about software engineers. He's wrong on that one!

for me getting swore at and sleep deprived was not my bag, im all about working hard but hazing does not work for me thats just a personal choise.

You are correct - military service is not for everyone. I entered as enlisted (E1) even though I had two scholarships to help out with college because I was raised to believe that military service came above personal benefit. My dad was a first seargent in the air force and very tough - going thru boot camp and serving my time in the service was 'par for the course' in my eyes since that was how I was raised. On the other hand, I didn't serve my full duty time because of a medical condition - I received a medical discharge after spending much of my time on light duty. Again, the circumstances behind what happened were messed up and my medical care could have been better and even prevented some of the issues I had (and still have today) but I have no regrets. We are only afforded one life and you have to make the best of it.

I agree you just have to keep plugging along but I figured with 5 years of good solid engineering design experience I would not still be in the same situation as I was when I first graduated when it comes to getting job offers, I feel like im having to go through the same gyrations as someone with 0 years of experence, with all the resumes I put in I would think I would be getting a least a few interviews and possibly a few job offers so I could pick and choose but instead I still feel like I just graduated or an indentured servant lol. Maybe I really need the PE on the resume and 7-10 years before I can start getting call backs and offers without having to put out 30 resumes for one call back (if im lucky, which I have not been thus far).

Based on what you say here, it seems that one should offer 'respect' based on a license or degree. I can promise you that is simply NOT going to happen. People 'respect' you when you have something to offer. Period.

I worked as a regulator for a state agency for ten years and obtained my PE license during that period. I can promise you that 10 yrs worth of experience and a PE license did NOTHING to earn respect from potential employers. Sure I would get phone calls, interviews, and empty promises but when the time came to actually getting that new job it took me nearly three years of searching. I finally matched with my job in the power/utility industry - the job that I have now. These people hired me and offered 'respect' because I could navigate the problems they presented AND offer solutions.

I think you need to be careful about how you perceive respect from potential employers. In fact, I would take it a step further to say that YOU must be able to market yourself in a way that shows off what you have to offer. You cannot sit back and think that any amount of education or licensure will entitle you to this respect.

I understand your disappointment - I have been there. I offer this advice to you - take it as you will. As a person of free will, you can choose to make a better life for yourself and continue to strive forward or you can sit back and believe you are held vicitim to any set of limitations that you perceive. You, and you alone have the free will and choice to fail or succeed. Your education and license are only tools on that path.

In closing, and not to :deadhorse: , I would like to offer two quotes my dad used to say to me:

1. Life isn't fair.

2. Work isn't for you to like - it is for you to do.

My dad was right on those two points .... but what he failed to comprehend was that my attitude has made all the difference as to how I rise to meet the challenge.

I wish you luck with your challenges!

JR

Im not saying the experience and licence entitles anyone to anything but there is a certian level of items one expects to see on a resume when hiring and if thoes are not there you will not even get a call back. Fortunatly I like my work I just dont like my job security. I guess if you freeze to death you freeze to death and that is your time to go when you can not offer a service that anyone wants. If that happens I will accept that is Gods will for me and in the mean time I will keep pushing to pay off my debt and maybe get a plane someday if things are cut short thats life and im sure things will be much better in the next life where life will be fair, but being paranoid about being laid off and not being able to find a job is not really useful so I guess I just needed to vent.

 

[rppearso]

now I am getting the same posts that I do on other forums, as engineers and educated people I think we can do better.

If you get the same kind of posts on every forum you join, maybe you should realize that it's you...not us.

The problem with other forums is I never got real meaningful feed back like I get here just rude nasty comments (on the other forums). So I knew there was an issue but could never get a straight answer.

 

[EM_PS]

Im not saying the experience and licence entitles anyone to anything but there is a certian level of items one expects to see on a resume when hiring and if thoes are not there you will not even get a call back. Fortunatly I like my work I just dont like my job security. I guess if you freeze to death you freeze to death and that is your time to go when you can not offer a service that anyone wants. If that happens I will accept that is Gods will for me and in the mean time I will keep pushing to pay off my debt and maybe get a plane someday if things are cut short thats life and im sure things will be much better in the next life where life will be fair, but being paranoid about being laid off and not being able to find a job is not really useful so I guess I just needed to vent.

Dude if you could only hear how much of a douche you sound like. You're working, in your field no less! Nobody's job is overly secure & here you are whining about respect, pay, why some people have had an easier ride than others, people who've had successful careers (gravy train i believe you call it), freezing to death, not being able to buy an airplane... :screwloose:

there are people who ARE unemployed w/ poor prospects in their field / State, have children to feed, elderly parents to assist, student loans to pay off, mortgages - I'm one btw. you need to F'n grow a pair! :smileyballs: Stop being such a punk@ss bitch whining about your lot in life when it seems pretty good from where I sit. Sorry to be blunt & rude, just somebody needed to say it.

On a more civil note, Happy Thanksgiving. B)

 

[MGX]

Im not saying the experience and licence entitles anyone to anything but there is a certian level of items one expects to see on a resume when hiring and if thoes are not there you will not even get a call back. Fortunatly I like my work I just dont like my job security. I guess if you freeze to death you freeze to death and that is your time to go when you can not offer a service that anyone wants. If that happens I will accept that is Gods will for me and in the mean time I will keep pushing to pay off my debt and maybe get a plane someday if things are cut short thats life and im sure things will be much better in the next life where life will be fair, but being paranoid about being laid off and not being able to find a job is not really useful so I guess I just needed to vent.

There are only a few comments I can make, you seem very dense but maybe these will get through to you.

1. No job security exists, it is a myth. Your only security is your ability to leave the house and score work. If it isn't in your field, then boo hoo. You can find something else to stop the gap until something you like is available. I think we've all worked jobs we didn't like for a short period of time, this is nothing unique to your situation.

2. I seriously doubt its God's will for you to freeze to death. Believers use this excuse as a way to circumvent their responsibilities, I've seen it in my church and I've been tempted to use it also. Get off your duff and get busy. Forget about the plane or whatever pie in the sky dreams you have and focus on short term goals first. We all have pie in the sky dreams but we need to eat first.

3. Life isn't fair, the trick is to make it unfair in your favor (my granddad's quote)

 

[Flyer_PE]

1. No job security exists, it is a myth. Your only security is your ability to leave the house and score work. If it isn't in your field, then boo hoo. You can find something else to stop the gap until something you like is available. I think we've all worked jobs we didn't like for a short period of time, this is nothing unique to your situation.

My dad had a slightly different way of expressing it. "Your only job security lies in what you can do for your next employer."

3. Life isn't fair, the trick is to make it unfair in your favor (my granddad's quote)

I really like that one.

 

[rppearso]

Im not saying the experience and licence entitles anyone to anything but there is a certian level of items one expects to see on a resume when hiring and if thoes are not there you will not even get a call back. Fortunatly I like my work I just dont like my job security. I guess if you freeze to death you freeze to death and that is your time to go when you can not offer a service that anyone wants. If that happens I will accept that is Gods will for me and in the mean time I will keep pushing to pay off my debt and maybe get a plane someday if things are cut short thats life and im sure things will be much better in the next life where life will be fair, but being paranoid about being laid off and not being able to find a job is not really useful so I guess I just needed to vent.

There are only a few comments I can make, you seem very dense but maybe these will get through to you.

1. No job security exists, it is a myth. Your only security is your ability to leave the house and score work. If it isn't in your field, then boo hoo. You can find something else to stop the gap until something you like is available. I think we've all worked jobs we didn't like for a short period of time, this is nothing unique to your situation.

2. I seriously doubt its God's will for you to freeze to death. Believers use this excuse as a way to circumvent their responsibilities, I've seen it in my church and I've been tempted to use it also. Get off your duff and get busy. Forget about the plane or whatever pie in the sky dreams you have and focus on short term goals first. We all have pie in the sky dreams but we need to eat first.

3. Life isn't fair, the trick is to make it unfair in your favor (my granddad's quote)

I am probably being a downer and im sorry for that. What do you mean believers use this excuse as a way to circumvent responsibilities, its really simple either you have income and can pay your mortgage or you cant and if the unemployment goes on for to long there are consequences to that thats all I was saying, if you cant get an offer soon enough then things denigrate thats just life I have not had to deal with that yet so I doubt thats is Gods will either, but it does not take very long for things to denigrate to that point.

 

[Guest]

there are people who ARE unemployed w/ poor prospects in their field / State, have children to feed, elderly parents to assist, student loans to pay off, mortgages - I'm one btw. you need to F'n grow a pair! :smileyballs: Stop being such a punk@ss bitch whining about your lot in life when it seems pretty good from where I sit. Sorry to be blunt & rude, just somebody needed to say it.

I would add that there are a number of people also feeling the effects of getting taken to the cleaner due to a divorce - yours truly being one of those people. If you are going to lament your current condition; all I can say is that there are many, many things that can happen in your life to take your 'security' away ... divorce, personal illness, illness of a loved one, ... I think the list is almost endless. On this point, EM is spot-on - you need to grow a pair before life runs you over.

1. No job security exists, it is a myth. Your only security is your ability to leave the house and score work. If it isn't in your field, then boo hoo. You can find something else to stop the gap until something you like is available. I think we've all worked jobs we didn't like for a short period of time, this is nothing unique to your situation.

Very true. I know a number of govt employees who had become accustomed to their job that suddenly found themselves in jeopardy employment-wise. They ended up settling for less pay in a job they really didn't like so that they could hold on to their 'security'.

If you are going to believe that there is security in any job or subsidy available to you then you are extremely foolish placing your life and fate in someone else's hands. You have to create your opportunity and create your destiny ... and as you have already noted; it probably won't be easy. Sorry to say it but many of us have had it tough!

3. Life isn't fair, the trick is to make it unfair in your favor (my granddad's quote)

I really like that quote as well!

I am probably being a downer and im sorry for that. What do you mean believers use this excuse as a way to circumvent responsibilities, its really simple either you have income and can pay your mortgage or you cant and if the unemployment goes on for to long there are consequences to that thats all I was saying, if you cant get an offer soon enough then things denigrate thats just life I have not had to deal with that yet so I doubt thats is Gods will either, but it does not take very long for things to denigrate to that point.

It's not about being a downer - it's about being empowered. You began with saying how things aren't fair and there are others that have fared better. We all make choices in our life - sometimes it works out, sometimes not. The only thing that matters is how you choose to accept it (or not).

The job market is tough - this isn't McDonalds; you will not get it your way. Carrying debt at this particular point in time is also tough. You aren't going to find ways to reshuffle debt unless it is under VERY secure collateral. You aren't going to find lenders who are very understanding or sympathetic to your situation. Maintaining a household is tough. It seems to take more resources and more time at work while offering less flexibility (in general).

I think the horse is getting beaten here ... but ... man up and take responsibility.

JR

 

[rppearso]

there are people who ARE unemployed w/ poor prospects in their field / State, have children to feed, elderly parents to assist, student loans to pay off, mortgages - I'm one btw. you need to F'n grow a pair! :smileyballs: Stop being such a punk@ss bitch whining about your lot in life when it seems pretty good from where I sit. Sorry to be blunt & rude, just somebody needed to say it.

I would add that there are a number of people also feeling the effects of getting taken to the cleaner due to a divorce - yours truly being one of those people. If you are going to lament your current condition; all I can say is that there are many, many things that can happen in your life to take your 'security' away ... divorce, personal illness, illness of a loved one, ... I think the list is almost endless. On this point, EM is spot-on - you need to grow a pair before life runs you over.

1. No job security exists, it is a myth. Your only security is your ability to leave the house and score work. If it isn't in your field, then boo hoo. You can find something else to stop the gap until something you like is available. I think we've all worked jobs we didn't like for a short period of time, this is nothing unique to your situation.

Very true. I know a number of govt employees who had become accustomed to their job that suddenly found themselves in jeopardy employment-wise. They ended up settling for less pay in a job they really didn't like so that they could hold on to their 'security'.

If you are going to believe that there is security in any job or subsidy available to you then you are extremely foolish placing your life and fate in someone else's hands. You have to create your opportunity and create your destiny ... and as you have already noted; it probably won't be easy. Sorry to say it but many of us have had it tough!

3. Life isn't fair, the trick is to make it unfair in your favor (my granddad's quote)

I really like that quote as well!

I am probably being a downer and im sorry for that. What do you mean believers use this excuse as a way to circumvent responsibilities, its really simple either you have income and can pay your mortgage or you cant and if the unemployment goes on for to long there are consequences to that thats all I was saying, if you cant get an offer soon enough then things denigrate thats just life I have not had to deal with that yet so I doubt thats is Gods will either, but it does not take very long for things to denigrate to that point.

It's not about being a downer - it's about being empowered. You began with saying how things aren't fair and there are others that have fared better. We all make choices in our life - sometimes it works out, sometimes not. The only thing that matters is how you choose to accept it (or not).

The job market is tough - this isn't McDonalds; you will not get it your way. Carrying debt at this particular point in time is also tough. You aren't going to find ways to reshuffle debt unless it is under VERY secure collateral. You aren't going to find lenders who are very understanding or sympathetic to your situation. Maintaining a household is tough. It seems to take more resources and more time at work while offering less flexibility (in general).

I think the horse is getting beaten here ... but ... man up and take responsibility.

JR

I dont think I was ever suggesting that I not take responsibility I was simply venting about things, I ran my finances for 2010 and I just need 2010 to pay off my state student loans if I get laid off after that I can always put my place up for rent and leave the state or sell it or worse case forclose and declair bank rupcy if it turns out im upsidedown on it. It will be very exciting to write the check for the final pay off of the loan. If worse came to worse dieing on the streets is not an impossibility and thats just life.

 

[IlPadrino]

[As I said in another post I am not a millionare or my parents are not millionares so it would have been REALLY nice to have a gov financed education and all this money I am dumping into student loans could be dumping it into my condo so I have a roof over my head when im laid off, you can call it what ever you want but I call it not wanting to die.

There *is* government financed education... it's called public school which will get you all the way to a High School Diploma.

Yeah, it'd also be REALLY nice if my wife started walking around the house naked, day and night... but that's right up there with Santa Claus coming down the chimney, the Loch Ness Monster, and you getting a 100% government financed college education.

Do you disagree that EVERYONE in the U.S. can get a college education with sufficient preparation in High School, sacrifice, and hard work?

 

[Flyer_PE]

Do you disagree that EVERYONE in the U.S. can get a college education with sufficient preparation in High School, sacrifice, and hard work?

I don't disagree with this at all. I spent my first two years at a community college that had a pre-engineering program. It allowed me to live with my parents and save cash. I ended up with the same 4-year degree as my contemporaries at university. As far as my resume and job prospects, nobody cared where I took the base courses. The only thing that mattered was that I had the BSEE.

 

[MGX]

I'll second that. I also graduated from a two year school and transferred to a four year university. The classes were smaller and just about anyone can afford to pay all the bills at a two year school so if one has to borrow its only for two years at university. Some of the best instructors I've had were at the two year school.

Also, many universities require you live in the dorms for one or two years which are quite expensive. If you stay at home and work the first two years (like those classes are that tough that you can't work and go to school) the debt needed to graduate is really quite manageable.

Of course this probably only applies if one goes to a state school. Most state school don't award laser etched diplomas, but there is little to no evidence that graduating from a prestigious school means you will earn millions more than one who graduated from a state school. What you do with your education is entirely up to you.

 

[rppearso]

I'll second that. I also graduated from a two year school and transferred to a four year university. The classes were smaller and just about anyone can afford to pay all the bills at a two year school so if one has to borrow its only for two years at university. Some of the best instructors I've had were at the two year school.
Also, many universities require you live in the dorms for one or two years which are quite expensive. If you stay at home and work the first two years (like those classes are that tough that you can't work and go to school) the debt needed to graduate is really quite manageable.

Of course this probably only applies if one goes to a state school. Most state school don't award laser etched diplomas, but there is little to no evidence that graduating from a prestigious school means you will earn millions more than one who graduated from a state school. What you do with your education is entirely up to you.

Pretty much, I learned a hard lesson and will be paying for it through next year and having a cheap skate christmas this year and next year until they are paid off. I am going to a local school for an advanced engineering math course and its like 400$ and the instructor is very accomodating so if I decide to pursue the EE degree it will be much cheaper. The next thing to start balloon paymenting out is the condo and once I dont have a student loan payment I can pile a bunch of money up to pay off my condo then the worries will be nill. The laser etched silver degree still looks cool on my wall in a specialty frame and since I already paid for it I might as well enjoy it lol.

 

[KingJester]

Yea auto mechanic is something I have been really thinking about but the problem is its the same story in that field, you go to work for a shop and you end up with about 1/3 of the bill rate, so unless you have the money to set up your own shop your going to be in the same situation as engineering. The only way to get the higher bill rate would be if you were unionized so you could get 2/3 to 80% of your bill rate I think that would be alot more fair but the only way to make that happen is if you were unionized. If I made 80-90% of my bill rate I would not really be concerned about furloughs or lay offs because my bank account would be padded. There is a local contracting outfit in my area that only takes 10% and I applied with them and they said they would get back with me next week so im looking forward to what they say.

Set up a Sub S Corp and work out of your garage...

 

[STEEL MAN]

Yea auto mechanic is something I have been really thinking about but the problem is its the same story in that field, you go to work for a shop and you end up with about 1/3 of the bill rate, so unless you have the money to set up your own shop your going to be in the same situation as engineering. The only way to get the higher bill rate would be if you were unionized so you could get 2/3 to 80% of your bill rate I think that would be alot more fair but the only way to make that happen is if you were unionized. If I made 80-90% of my bill rate I would not really be concerned about furloughs or lay offs because my bank account would be padded. There is a local contracting outfit in my area that only takes 10% and I applied with them and they said they would get back with me next week so im looking forward to what they say.

Set up a Sub S Corp and work out of your garage...

i agree, engineers are expendable, i have been laid off twice this year and found a job twice this year, but im only employed 7 months this year, the economy right now is tough it is a struggle to get projects and at the same time jobs in engineering, i dont know what next year will bring just hope for the best and prepare for the worse.