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Dexman1349
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Help Support Professional Engineer & PE Exam Forum:
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rppearso
Im 28 so im not sure what gen'er that makes me as I dont really keep up with that. I now have the understanding that you are telling me but it was a pretty rude awakening, I also agree I spent way to much on school so now I am buckeling down and in super cheap skate mode so I can pay back that debt before next christmas, I just spend my 8.40$ in stamps for some christmas cards I found in my desk so that will be christmas so I can keep making 1000$ payments. Also since my company just went to a policy where I have to invest in my 401K for 8 months before I know if I am getting matching I am going to stop contributions right after my last pay check in dec and can add that amount to my student loan pay off and can then start making balloon payments towards my condo. So it is do able I just learned a bit late I guess, once everything is paid off it will be nice. The military was not for me in other ways also, when I joined they were not yet deploying guard overseas in mass numbers and after I was in they started that up and I did not sign up for that ... litterally otherwise I would have joined active duty, the whole thing was a hosed up deal, they did not even deploy guard in vietnam in mass numbers anyways thats another discussion for another forum lol. As far as engineers being respected they are not really and that is what it is, I just have to pinch every penny and be in a better financial position so im not so paranoid about it lol.
MechGuy
Well-known member
LOL you still just don't get it. OK I'm done on this one... I'm going to try an easier task, like reasoning with my 5 year old.
yeah, working and school can be a total pain. I put myself through Grad School (while working full-time) and actually had some jerks I've interviewed with ask why it took so long. (I don't know why some of these companies let idiots represent them.)
we need to address college costs. As much as Mark Sanford is getting beaten up in the press these days......I like the guy because he has had the guts to stand up to local [public] colleges about their raising tuition. We need that nation-wide. We need to say to public colleges: either you keep your costs reasonable or you aren't going to get state dollars anymore. Either that, or we need to just pay everybody's ride from now on. The other thing about universities these days that kind of bothers me is it seems that the admission requirements are getting ridiculous. Depriving more marginal students of an higher education serves no purpose. The other day I was looking at some statistics of the average entering SAT scores (and GPAs) of a [public] college I went to and I just had to shake my head (considering they turn down a lot of in-state students). I had to wonder: are they in the business of educating this state's kids or I am a Gigantic *********
we need to address college costs. As much as Mark Sanford is getting beaten up in the press these days......I like the guy because he has had the guts to stand up to local [public] colleges about their raising tuition. We need that nation-wide. We need to say to public colleges: either you keep your costs reasonable or you aren't going to get state dollars anymore. Either that, or we need to just pay everybody's ride from now on. The other thing about universities these days that kind of bothers me is it seems that the admission requirements are getting ridiculous. Depriving more marginal students of an higher education serves no purpose. The other day I was looking at some statistics of the average entering SAT scores (and GPAs) of a [public] college I went to and I just had to shake my head (considering they turn down a lot of in-state students). I had to wonder: are they in the business of educating this state's kids or I am a Gigantic *********
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Dexman1349
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rppearso
Im not sure I understand as I admitted my shortcommings, could you please give me a more rational answer as we are all engineers here after all.
MechGuy
Well-known member
LOL no thats quite alright, I have a 2 year old and 3 month old that can also help me out with my headacheIf you need practice, you can borrow my 2.5 and my 4 yr old too...
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
And where, exactly, is this money going to come from? It costs X dollars to run a university, and the state provides Y dollars. If X-Y is a positive number, then students pay tuition. If Y decreases, which it does every year in almost every state, then tuition has to increase. And your free ride idea just shifts the costs. Either you pay the tuition when you are going to school, or you don't pay tuition, get a degree, get a job, and pay higher taxes so that other people can go to school. That entitlement mentality is exactly why taxes are as high as they are, government has so much power, and our national debt is as high as it is.
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rppearso
This is correct to an extent, what the gov should be doing is investigating the universitys with a fine tooth comb because I can almost gaurentee there is pilfering in there that is contributing to costs, when pilfering goes unchecked it turns into full blown rip offs, the education of our future should not rest with free market, its one thing to charge what the market will bear for a farrari but not education or other basic nessicities of life hense why we have gov regulated utilities so power companies can not make money hand over fist for something that is not a luxury in modern society, I also think local phone service should be utilitized and when I get some time am thinking about proposing a ballot meaure to make cable and phone companies a utility and fix there profits and wages of thoes working for them. If the gov or some other 3rd party came in and mandated that they run lean and mean and cut out the fluff you would curve alot of these problems. The same thing is true with the medical system, the insurance companies are basicly mobsters and have been allowed to operate almost completely unchecked and have created a nightmare for doctors offices and tons of levels of bearuocracy that drive prices up but because they have lobby power the real problems will never be resolved until everything is totally ruined, people will have to make the choise to just die because they cant afford insurance and rent and there car and enjoy life a bit, if people have no hope in this life they will have a little fun in the present and if they die they die. We are all just a lay off away from being completely ruined unless you are a gravy trainer or have a gravy train enheritance. Im going on 30 years old and still dealing with student loans and am one lay off away from being totally hosed because even though I have been putting in tons of resumes and applications I have got no offers so if I had got laid off last may I would have been totally screwed because no one else was hiring, thats life and the product of a corrupt society, its not about being willing to go to work its that the work is not there.
Maybe gov control of everything is the best way to go because then at least you can live where as with corporations you will be left on the streets to starve or freeze to death, I used to never think that way but seeing what greed and corruption of corporations has done does not really give me much confidence, its like corporations are so greedy they will eventually exploit every loop hole they can find and then you have to write a new law but thats almost impossible as an individual and eventually they get so sneaky at it you have to shut the whole thing down and have complete gov control, if we all cant play nice in the sand box and the bigger bullies are always trying to steal someones lunch money then the adults are going to get involved.
Where will the money come from? Are you kidding me?! Try cutting out the multi-million dollar stadium renovations and the research facilities for starters. The college I went to NEVER seems to have trouble finding the millions for that. And I tell you something else pal: I don't have any sense of entitlement; my degrees are bought and paid for (and I got them without incurring any debt, although it took a million years). So I don't suggest this for my benefit at all. And there are other ways to fund education besides taxes (a lottery being one of them).
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
Nope, not kidding you. At most large (D-1A, BCS, etc) public universities, the athletics department is the only department that has a negative budget from the university. They bring in not only enough money to pay for the stadium and outrageous coach salaries, but they also contribute money to the general fund of the university. Sure, without those large expenditures on items unnecessary to education they could put more money into the education portion of the university, but the argument could be made that without spending the money on facilities and coaches, they wouldn't produce as much money in the first place.
As for rppearso's long, rambling answer...if you want to see how much an unsubsidized education should cost, just look at private schools. When the students have to pay for ALL costs of running the university (facilities, faculty, staff, supplies, overhead, etc.), tuition is FAR higher than at public, taxpayer-subsidized universities. And private institutions have an incentive to be lean/profitable in their operations. Sure, they can raise tuition to cover extra expenses, but once they raise the price too high, demand will drop. Despite your assertion, even education services follow supply and demand curves. As is the norm with government, their subsidy does nothing but artificially shift the curves.
oh what a bunch of crap. The last renovation of the stadium where I went to school was completely unnecessary (even some alums said so). not to mention the new walkways and water fountains they put in all over the place. Anyone who looks at these institutions and can't find waste is fooling themselves (as one that is so concerned about taxes being hiked, I would assume you would be first on this band wagon).
This be true to your school mentality that gets people to look the other way when they pull the garbage they do is ridiculous.
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rppearso
Awesome so we will have a full blown cast system, only the kids of the gravy trainers (thoes who made there fortunes off the hard work of others in the past, or off of fatty high dollar projects) will be able to afford to finish school before they are 50 years old or without so much debt they will be in their 30's before paying it off or longer. Tax money pays for high school, maybe that should be privatized im sure there are people who thing that, I hate to break it to you but a bachelors degree is the new high school diploma, if you are not going to get a BS or highly skilled trade school you might as well not even graduate high school because your job options are fairly close to the same.
The supply/demand curves dont work when you have to many gravy trainers going to school on mommy and daddys dime, its a cast system, if someone benifited from a gravy train (sole source contract, davis bacon project, insider buisness deals, double over time at 80hrs a week, you name it) they should pay a dispropotionate amount of taxes so that others can go to school, it should not be spread around evenly, people who bank rolled off some unique circumstance or happen chance should be spreading the wealth not people who are barely paying for a place to live but work just as hard as you and have the same degrees as you but did not fall backwards into a cash cow. Thats just my opinion, I used to be pretty republican and then I realized that im not a millionare lol (I still think obama is an idiot but thats a discussion for another forum).
IlPadrino
Well-known member
College education may be a public interest, but it can't be for everyone... otherwise we'd run out of people to be cashiers, landscapers, construction workers, etc., etc. So, frankly, I don't quite see the problem. Higher education is available to EVERYONE that wants it - but you can't wake up one day at age 18 and decide that despite doing nothing in High School, you want to start at a top-notch state or private school. Does anyone get rejected by a community college?
wilheldp_PE
PE, LEED AP, SPAM KING
I'm not wAsting any more time arguing with reppearso or RM-270. They are equally incoherent and stubborn.
EM_PS
shining like a lighter...
Even if they took 17% thats way better than 66% which is what im getting shafted with now, if this were splitting hairs over a few percent I would not have even posted this but I think alot people are geting royally ripped off and the entire field of engineering lacks alot of respect. Since one of you is in the military here, the military does not even recognize engineering degrees as professionals (ie get to skip basic and OCS and start off as a capt like doctors and JAG do, even if you have a PE, masters or PhD in engineering you still wont get a direct commission to capt like docs and JAG get. When I was in the gaurd for 2 years I was treated as any rank and file private and that did not sit well with me hence the 2 year part. The profession does not really command any respect anymore, it really is very sad.
I am an O-1, Ensign, in the Navy Reserve. I received a direct commission into the Civil Engineering Corps due to the fact that I have a BSCE. I am not required to go to OCS, just a two week fork and knife school. I am staff corps officer and will never be allowed to command an aircraft carrier, but the Seabee Battalions are way more fun anyway.
As for the rank and file part, the NCO's were doing you a tremendous favor as an Officer Cadet. The other soldiers got to see that their potential platoon leader had to go through the same process they did and got no special treatment. If makes you legit in the eyes of your troops, and then they know that if you ask them to go dig a ditch all day they will know that you can and are willing to do it right alongside them if necessary.
I am an O-1, Ensign, in the Navy Reserve. I received a direct commission into the Civil Engineering Corps due to the fact that I have a BSCE. I am not required to go to OCS, just a two week fork and knife school. I am staff corps officer and will never be allowed to command an aircraft carrier, but the Seabee Battalions are way more fun anyway.
As for the rank and file part, the NCO's were doing you a tremendous favor as an Officer Cadet. The other soldiers got to see that their potential platoon leader had to go through the same process they did and got no special treatment. If makes you legit in the eyes of your troops, and then they know that if you ask them to go dig a ditch all day they will know that you can and are willing to do it right alongside them if necessary.
MechGuy
Well-known member
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Dexman1349
Dark Knight
Silent Guardian
(Great av Dex.
lusone: )Now go back to the discussion.........
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