Application Question for CA Appilication regarding references

[nightwing]

First time on the forum, it was recommended.

For the Civil PE Exam I know one reference of the four references needs to be one of your licensed supervisor for each engagement. If I have one engagement and need two years qualifying experience of work based on the flowchart and my current licensed supervisor has reviewed my work and supervised for the last 19 months, would he count as the supervising reference and this be sufficient for the supervisor part? Then my other three references could be my colleagues and peers who are licensed have reviewed my work for the last three years. Would this qualify me?

Here's what happened to me. I used as one of my references a "co-worker of equal level" (or however the board terms it) and they gave me credit as him being one of my 4 needed references but none of the time under this reference counted toward my required time. Only time under a supervisor counts as experience time. Does that make sense? But check with your evaluator to be sure.

ALL claimed work experience needs to have been performed under the direction of an individual licensed in the practice that you are applying for. If ALL your claimed experience can be claimed under 1 or 2 of your engagement forms, then the other 2 or 3 engagement/reference forms can be completed by other licensees that are familiar with your experience but do not necessarily have to have been in responsible charge of the claimed experience.

For example, if you worked for one firm your entire experience and there are multiple licensees at the firm, you could have the licensee in responsible charge complete engagement 1, copy this engagement as engagement 2, 3, and 4, each with different licensed coworkers signing. Or you can split the time. Either way, make sure you communicate it very clearly in the engagements.

Hope this helps clear it up for you

Ric, I was with you on paragraph 1 and then you lost me with paragraph 2. That is not how I remembered it at all. I remember the instructions being very specific on what one engagement is. So, I looked it up. This is what the application says:

List your engagements below in reverse chronological order beginning at graduation. Leave no gaps in the list. If you were not employed in the engineering field, you must still list the dates and explain in the Remarks section. Your present engagement is No. 1. An engagement is one association, with one employer, in one capacity, at one level of responsibility. A change in engagement is a new employer, a promotion, or a significant change in duties, authority, responsibility, etc. Different projects in the same capacity for one employer are not considered separate engagements. Explain any overlaps in employment dates.

The way I read it, a copy and paste of engagement #1 won't do for #s 2 - 4. Each engagement must be uniquely different. Am I reading it incorrectly?

http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/pubs/forms/ceapp.pdf

http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/civilpe_errf_instructions_2010.pdf

http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/faq_eng.pdf

I could not find anything that clearly states a supervisor has to review and verify the entire engagement for it to count.

It has been said in this thread by me and by CAPLS that it does not. And it is clearly in the second link I provided above.

References can come from any of the listed below, but are generally considered in the following descending order of significance:

1) Immediate supervisor;

2) Indirect supervisor;

3) Co-worker at equal or higher level; and,

4) Other qualified person.

So can you please help clariy this

"[SIZE=11pt]All civil engineering work experience must be gained while working under the direction of a licensed Civil Engineer."[/SIZE]

"[SIZE=11pt]For civil engineering work experience which was gained in California or any other place where such work is required to be under the jurisdiction of a licensed civil engineer, at least one of the applicants licensed references must be from someone who is or was in a supervisory capacity over the applicant, for each engagement for which the applicant desires credit. An engagement not verified by a licensed civil engineer supervisor will be considered as either non-civil engineering experience, or illegal civil engineering experience, and in either case it will not be acceptable."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So based on my understanding:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]An application needs to have a supervisor or someone in supervisor capacity verifying each engagment. That supervisor does not need to verify the whole enaggement just part of it. Do you think that is correct?[/SIZE]

I thought I was pretty clear in my post #6. You need 72 months of experience under a PE. But 48 of that can be substituted with a 4yr degree, leaving 24 months needed under a PE. And you need 4 references. Only time under a PE counts toward your 24 months. But other PEs who your didn't necessarily work under can count toward your references. I hope this is clear.

Thanks. I just I am a little confused if for example I need two years of work experience and my supervisor can count for 18 months of time period, one co-worker count 24 months, and two other co-workers are each 10 months would this epxeirence qualify a person? If the supervisor reviewed the work for 18 months, but a co-worker reviewed the work for two years over the same enagement will two years be used for the experience?

 

[ptatohed]

Thanks. I just I am a little confused if for example I need two years of work experience and my supervisor can count for 18 months of time period, one co-worker count 24 months, and two other co-workers are each 10 months would this epxeirence qualify a person? If the supervisor reviewed the work for 18 months, but a co-worker reviewed the work for two years over the same enagement will two years be used for the experience?

I give up. Good luck to you.

 

[Ramnares P.E.]

"Thanks. I just I am a little confused if for example I need two years of work experience and my supervisor can count for 18 months of time period, one co-worker count 24 months, and two other co-workers are each 10 months would this experience qualify a person? If the supervisor reviewed the work for 18 months, but a co-worker reviewed the work for two years over the same engagement will two years be used for the experience?"

I'll take a stab at this. If your co-worker who reviewed the work for 24 months is a P.E. then that time counts towards the 24 months experience required. If that co-worker is not a P.E. BUT your supervisor who reviewed the work for 18 months is a P.E. then you can count 18 months towards the experience which means you still need 6 months.

If your supervisor and three other co-workers (who are all P.E.s) have reviewed your work then all four count as references.

I don't think ptatohed could have made this any simpler so good luck to you.

 

[nightwing]

Thanks. I just I am a little confused if for example I need two years of work experience and my supervisor can count for 18 months of time period, one co-worker count 24 months, and two other co-workers are each 10 months would this epxeirence qualify a person? If the supervisor reviewed the work for 18 months, but a co-worker reviewed the work for two years over the same enagement will two years be used for the experience?

I give up. Good luck to you.

Thanks for your help. Sorry if I had trouble understanding your response. I apperciate your help.

 

[nightwing]

"Thanks. I just I am a little confused if for example I need two years of work experience and my supervisor can count for 18 months of time period, one co-worker count 24 months, and two other co-workers are each 10 months would this experience qualify a person? If the supervisor reviewed the work for 18 months, but a co-worker reviewed the work for two years over the same engagement will two years be used for the experience?"

I'll take a stab at this. If your co-worker who reviewed the work for 24 months is a P.E. then that time counts towards the 24 months experience required. If that co-worker is not a P.E. BUT your supervisor who reviewed the work for 18 months is a P.E. then you can count 18 months towards the experience which means you still need 6 months.

If your supervisor and three other co-workers (who are all P.E.s) have reviewed your work then all four count as references.

I don't think ptatohed could have made this any simpler so good luck to you.

Thank you for your help.

 

[MrHugo]

Sorry for digging this thread back up, but this thread have cleared some of my questions for the engagements.

However, the licensed PE that can verify my experience is not an immediate supervisor.  The licensed PE works for the owner of the project and hires my company for consulting and building purposes.  I work closely with him and he is in responsible charge of my decisions and work.  Can he qualify to be my supervisor? or just "in responsible charge" & "Reviewed work"?   Will the application reviewer reject my experience submitted from indirect supervising, in responsible charge of my work, and have reviewed my work.  What is the best way to explain this on the form of our relationship?   

PS, I was rejected the first time because the reviewer remarks was "Unclear who is the employer/supervisor"

 

[ptatohed]

Sorry for digging this thread back up, but this thread have cleared some of my questions for the engagements.

However, the licensed PE that can verify my experience is not an immediate supervisor.  The licensed PE works for the owner of the project and hires my company for consulting and building purposes.  I work closely with him and he is in responsible charge of my decisions and work.  Can he qualify to be my supervisor? or just "in responsible charge" & "Reviewed work"?   Will the application reviewer reject my experience submitted from indirect supervising, in responsible charge of my work, and have reviewed my work.  What is the best way to explain this on the form of our relationship?   

PS, I was rejected the first time because the reviewer remarks was "Unclear who is the employer/supervisor"

It sounds like he might fall under indirect supervisor? 

1) Immediate supervisor;

2) Indirect supervisor;

3) Co-worker at equal or higher level; and,

4) Other qualified person.

 

[MrHugo]

Ok, So I read the Spec. and it says indirect supervisor is not enough to get the experience recognized.

There are 5 choices to choose from in the engagement form:

1) Employer/Suerpvisor

2) Co-Worker/Associate

3) In Responsible Charge

4) Reviewed Work

5) Other

Question:  Has anyone got your engagement experience recognized by only selecting "In responsible Charge" & "reviewed Work"?   Because those are the only chance I can get my experience recognized or else I will have to switch job who has a PE directly as my supervisor.

THANKS!

 

[ptatohed]

Ok, So I read the Spec. and it says indirect supervisor is not enough to get the experience recognized.

There are 5 choices to choose from in the engagement form:

1) Employer/Suerpvisor

2) Co-Worker/Associate

3) In Responsible Charge

4) Reviewed Work

5) Other

Question:  Has anyone got your engagement experience recognized by only selecting "In responsible Charge" & "reviewed Work"?   Because those are the only chance I can get my experience recognized or else I will have to switch job who has a PE directly as my supervisor.

THANKS!

You can use #s 3 and 4 but they will only count as fulfilling your minimum number of references.  The time claimed under these individuals will not count toward your required time.  For time to be counted it must be under a direct supervisor.