Am I Nuts?
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Chucktown PE
Well-known member
Thanks for the thoughts. I doubt plastic surgery is for me. I also don't really want to be a urologist or proctologist to the stars.
I have no doubt that engineering can be a very rewarding career. I have spent the last 18 months doing very unrewarding work.
I am actually going to talk to some other doctors over the next few weeks and try to get their thoughts on whether or not I should attempt something like this. I was talking to my dad last night and he said he didn't think I would like medicine at all right now. He said being a doctor has basically become a flow chart career and you can't really use a lot of judgement now. He said that basically, if the flow chart tells you to do x, then you better do x whether you think it is the right thing to do or not, if not then someone will sue the pants off of you. The specialties where this doesn't hold true are extremely competitive and
Anyway, last night I was thinking that was going to probably sign up for the biology and the organic chemistry and see what happens as there is very little risk there and I wouldn't really have to make a decision for a while. Then, while I was walking the dog I started doing the math. I wouldn't start medical school until I'm 31, finish when I'm 35, then 6 years of residency/fellowship. That would make me 41 by the time I started making money again. Admittedly it would be a lot of money but my son would be 15 years old. So I will be MIA for the majority of his childhood?
Now, in my opinion, there is no future in doing something I don't like. As big of a douche bag as Donald Trump is, one thing that he said has always stuck with me, 'if you aren't doing something you love you will never be successful.' I need to find something I love doing, maybe there is a promotion in my future that will help, maybe I need to focus on my part time boat salvage business and try to turn it into a full time operation.
I was talking to one of my younger brothers last night and he basically said he has three reasons for continuing on in his career (he has a ME degree and sells engineering software) 1) he has fun doing it/like it 2) he's making money 3) he's learning something. So none of those work for me right now. IMHO, the money in engineering sucks. I'm making $81k a year right now and based on what my boss is making, I may end up at $140k in 10 to 15 years. I don't see any future in that. I think medical school/being a doctor would satisfy all the criteria but maybe there is something engineering related that could do this as well.
I have no doubt that engineering can be a very rewarding career. I have spent the last 18 months doing very unrewarding work.
I am actually going to talk to some other doctors over the next few weeks and try to get their thoughts on whether or not I should attempt something like this. I was talking to my dad last night and he said he didn't think I would like medicine at all right now. He said being a doctor has basically become a flow chart career and you can't really use a lot of judgement now. He said that basically, if the flow chart tells you to do x, then you better do x whether you think it is the right thing to do or not, if not then someone will sue the pants off of you. The specialties where this doesn't hold true are extremely competitive and
Anyway, last night I was thinking that was going to probably sign up for the biology and the organic chemistry and see what happens as there is very little risk there and I wouldn't really have to make a decision for a while. Then, while I was walking the dog I started doing the math. I wouldn't start medical school until I'm 31, finish when I'm 35, then 6 years of residency/fellowship. That would make me 41 by the time I started making money again. Admittedly it would be a lot of money but my son would be 15 years old. So I will be MIA for the majority of his childhood?
Now, in my opinion, there is no future in doing something I don't like. As big of a douche bag as Donald Trump is, one thing that he said has always stuck with me, 'if you aren't doing something you love you will never be successful.' I need to find something I love doing, maybe there is a promotion in my future that will help, maybe I need to focus on my part time boat salvage business and try to turn it into a full time operation.
I was talking to one of my younger brothers last night and he basically said he has three reasons for continuing on in his career (he has a ME degree and sells engineering software) 1) he has fun doing it/like it 2) he's making money 3) he's learning something. So none of those work for me right now. IMHO, the money in engineering sucks. I'm making $81k a year right now and based on what my boss is making, I may end up at $140k in 10 to 15 years. I don't see any future in that. I think medical school/being a doctor would satisfy all the criteria but maybe there is something engineering related that could do this as well.
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Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Bull.
Crap.
I know plenty of successful people who don't particularly enjoy their jobs.
If you have to provide for you family by enduring a little dissatisfaction, so be it. If it really sucks, find another job. I just don't see reason to throw all that time and money away.
Cry me a river.
Are you sure it isn't all about the money?
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Chucktown PE
Well-known member
I don't think you understand what I'm saying.
And I doubt that those people are as successful as people who love what they do.
Money is definitely a concern, but going to medical school would probably end up costing more money than it paid, so no, medical school is not about money.
If I were making decent money and didn't love what I was doing that would be one thing, at least I would be able to spend that money doing things I love in my free time. But making mediocre money and not loving what I do totally sucks.
Edit: I'm not crying or whining, I'm trying to do something about it. I'll refrain from making any more posts on here if that is what this is perceived as. I was simply trying to get some advice from other engineers. I was under the impression that was the point of this site.
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Capt Worley PE
Run silent, run deep
Chuck, I don't know the circumstances of your youth, but 81K is a LOT of money. There are a LOT of poeple who make nowhere near that.
And people who love there job AND are successful are very few and far between.
I am really not trying to be ugly. You have it very good. I think you might have lost sight of that.
And people who love there job AND are successful are very few and far between.
I am really not trying to be ugly. You have it very good. I think you might have lost sight of that.
Ble_PE
I need a beer.
I have to agree with Captain on this one. I don't know many people that live in the SE who would complain making 81K a year when they are 29. That is far from mediocre pay. But I do concede that you need to enjoy what you are doing to make it worthwhile. I don't know of any job that wouldn't annoy you at times, but you need to find one that you like most of the time.
Chucktown PE
Well-known member
When you have two kids, a wife that doesn't work, and live in Charleston, $81k doesn't go very far. We aren't saving any money. We just break even every month.
My parents are wealthy, I know that now but didn't know it when I was young and we (me and my brothers) didn't grow up thinking that we were. Being able to pay for retirement and/or school for my children seems to be an impossibility at this point.
Maybe so, but I know plenty of successful people that love their jobs, and I'm not one of them.
I agree that I have a good life, not arguing there, but right now my career is not very rewarding, financially or from a personal fulfillment standpoint.
EM_PS
shining like a lighter...
chucktown, i am still curious as to what it is about the medical profession that has such a strong pull for you? After achieving a significant accomplishment academically (masters degree), you were interested back then in jumping into medical school. . .do you have doctors in your family tree? I'm just trying to understand a little bit the 'fire in your belly' for pursuing med school & doctoring up. You're clearly burnt out on what you do now, although financially its decent. . . but there are just a host of other opportunities out there with no where near the financial or temporal investment of pursuing an M.D. -
G
Guest
How much mroe money do you see as necessary to go the distance you are seeking? Does going to medical school bring you to that point? Could that same point be accomplished via a different job, different lifestyle, other changes?
I happen to be in the same boat and if you polled this board, an honest answer would probably be close to AT LEAST 80%. We are living in hard economic times ... it is hard to live and save under those conditions even with better-than-modest salaries.
Continuing the thought above - have you considered that accomplishing those goals IS an impossibility for our generation? The idea of wealth and what we can offer as salaries are stagnating yet the price of goods and especially college education are escalating make it VERY hard to account for things that in previous genearations seemed to be almost a given.
I ask because I have MANY friends who are vetting this process as they are addressing things that hit us in middle-age: sending kids to college, the occasional illness, taking care of parents, and taking care of other 'big ticket' items. These things happen and don't leave you in a very good place ... that's sometimes what life offers up and the way we meet these challenges (or accept the limitations that come) has to come with a modicum of acceptance (or resigation).
I think you are right in thinking about changes especially if you are unhappy - I think what most of the posters are asking: given the investment-to-date of time, materials, money towards your existing education/experience, is there some way to actually build on that in a way that isn't going to take away another +/- 10 yrs on pursuits you are fully sure will achieve your goals. Nobody is suggesting that you should just take it endzone for no gain; however, you should be honest with yourself about what you want whether it is financial gain, job satisifaction, family time, etc.
JR
Fudgey
Master of Disaster
Sounds like someboy needs a bailout!
Sschell
Dude?
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Road Guy
Well-known member
IMO thats pretty drastic Chuck. My brother in law is a doctor (so is his wife) they are "patient" people (not patience) but they have found that in all reality, the RN's take care of the patients and doctors go from room to room and such without doing what they thought they would be doing, they dont make an insane amount of money though, but I knew both these people before they went to med school and I honestly dont think they went in just for the money.
I would just give it some time, I think I said this before but there is a big difference in someone with 5 years on the other side of their PE than right after they get their PE (I cant recall how long you have had yours) in civil engineering I think there is a need (real or not) for people to like at least a little grey hair on their engineers.
If you cant look around to find something that makes it a little more likeable then maybe switch to a different sector, bigger firm, smaller firm, etc.
Of course if I am writing a business plan to get a loan to buy a dive shop (or thats what I was doing before I was working 18 hours a day with the flood) so you may want to disregard all above
I would just give it some time, I think I said this before but there is a big difference in someone with 5 years on the other side of their PE than right after they get their PE (I cant recall how long you have had yours) in civil engineering I think there is a need (real or not) for people to like at least a little grey hair on their engineers.
If you cant look around to find something that makes it a little more likeable then maybe switch to a different sector, bigger firm, smaller firm, etc.
Of course if I am writing a business plan to get a loan to buy a dive shop (or thats what I was doing before I was working 18 hours a day with the flood) so you may want to disregard all above
I might be in the minority but I don't think you're crazy. I say go for it if your family is not holding you back.
I can actually relate some. I used to think I would end up in med school and I still sometimes wonder about it. I'm still pretty sure I'm not really suited to be a doctor (and I'm happy that I'm an engineer) but I know if I would have been able to survive the path to getting to be a doctor, it would still have been rewarding.
This is not just a passing fancy for you (heck, it's totally normal to wonder what it would like to be a doctor or astronaut, or even a monarch or rice farmer). You are serious, you have the drive to do it, and I'm sure you have the skills. You even have the means to do it (compared to some folks), though budgets will be tight.
Keep in mind just because you go for it does not mean you'll pass the MCAT, get into a good school, survive med school, pass your boards (4 of them I think), get placed/matched to a residency, etc.... But since you are really serious about it and have made some preparations I think you should go for it.
Just ensure that you are doing other things to prepare, such as:
- make sure your wife is supportive and willing to work to supplement the income
- make sure you have a decently padded emergency/savings fund to help you make it in case your wife loses her job too.
- spend some time volunteering and serving the sick, elderly, and/or shadowing a doctor in a specialty you're interested in... so you have a better glimpse of what it's like to be around folks like this all the time. (see if you can incorporate with engineering, even... for example you could go on medical or dental missions trip with a church or service group, and help with building an orphanage or clinic. check out engineers without borders or engineering ministries international too...)
Anyway, that's just my two cents.
P.S. when my bro was in med school he said he met folks from all walks of life, not just young people fresh out of college. He met a former judge! I never asked if that guy finished med school though.
I can actually relate some. I used to think I would end up in med school and I still sometimes wonder about it. I'm still pretty sure I'm not really suited to be a doctor (and I'm happy that I'm an engineer) but I know if I would have been able to survive the path to getting to be a doctor, it would still have been rewarding.
This is not just a passing fancy for you (heck, it's totally normal to wonder what it would like to be a doctor or astronaut, or even a monarch or rice farmer). You are serious, you have the drive to do it, and I'm sure you have the skills. You even have the means to do it (compared to some folks), though budgets will be tight.
Keep in mind just because you go for it does not mean you'll pass the MCAT, get into a good school, survive med school, pass your boards (4 of them I think), get placed/matched to a residency, etc.... But since you are really serious about it and have made some preparations I think you should go for it.
Just ensure that you are doing other things to prepare, such as:
- make sure your wife is supportive and willing to work to supplement the income
- make sure you have a decently padded emergency/savings fund to help you make it in case your wife loses her job too.
- spend some time volunteering and serving the sick, elderly, and/or shadowing a doctor in a specialty you're interested in... so you have a better glimpse of what it's like to be around folks like this all the time. (see if you can incorporate with engineering, even... for example you could go on medical or dental missions trip with a church or service group, and help with building an orphanage or clinic. check out engineers without borders or engineering ministries international too...)
Anyway, that's just my two cents.
P.S. when my bro was in med school he said he met folks from all walks of life, not just young people fresh out of college. He met a former judge! I never asked if that guy finished med school though.
csb
Well-known member
I have a friend who just graduated med school...and has $200K in debt. He's single and glad that he is, because his married friends struggled the whole way through. One doctor he's working with in Residency is already talking divorce with her husband. He's making $12 an hour living just outside of Boston. I echo what everyone else has said...this has to be absolutely what you want to do, because the demands of med school are huge and the payoff just simply isn't there financially.
RIP - VTEnviro
His Memory Eternal
Seriously! I'm glad I had my foot operations in Worcester, which falls outside the 'just outside' category.
G
Guest
rlyflag:Ex Mrs JR was from Lowell ... just a little further down the street ... scary place!
JR
csb
Well-known member
The doctor is the one making $12/hour and he's at UMass in Worcester. Kinda the same way we all make crap money when we first start, he makes crap money. He's hoping to pay off his loans in many years. He's still got some other loan out that makes it possible for him to make ends meet. There are so many costs that went into him becoming a doctor that were over and beyond tuition...when he interviewed for residencies, a lot of the travel was on his own dime. Just to apply for residencies cost hundreds of dollars. All this was coupled with him not being allowed to work an outside job, so basically he lived on loans. This was after having been a full ride undergrad and getting scholarships during medical school. It's just a lot of money.
Ahem...and I know this is political thing, but his residency in emergency medicine means he mostly treats drug addicts, uninsured, and illegal immigrants. For every real emergency case, he does a lot of free clinic type of stuff.
CivE Bricky
Well-known member
Chucktown -
Beyond a doubt, you need a different job with a different emphasis.
I think there's lots of good discussion here. JR said much of what I wanted to say - and quite well.
I agree there's more going on with you than a burning desire to be a doc.
I agree you need to know way more about what medicine really is before you decide whether to go that route...
I think there's something about missed expectations related to income, lifestyle, doing better than parents (maybe), having a stay-at-home parent, etc. that may not add up in the exact place you're living now - but would add up elsewhere. Medical school is going to be a minimum of 6-7 years of far worse financial issues than you have now....and no guarantee of a relatively quick way to dig out of medical school debt once it's over.
I recommend more thinking and investigation - you haven't convinced me that you're drawn to medicine, but more that you're trying to escape from something else.
Good luck sorting it out!
-Brick
Beyond a doubt, you need a different job with a different emphasis.
I think there's lots of good discussion here. JR said much of what I wanted to say - and quite well.
I agree there's more going on with you than a burning desire to be a doc.
I agree you need to know way more about what medicine really is before you decide whether to go that route...
I think there's something about missed expectations related to income, lifestyle, doing better than parents (maybe), having a stay-at-home parent, etc. that may not add up in the exact place you're living now - but would add up elsewhere. Medical school is going to be a minimum of 6-7 years of far worse financial issues than you have now....and no guarantee of a relatively quick way to dig out of medical school debt once it's over.
I recommend more thinking and investigation - you haven't convinced me that you're drawn to medicine, but more that you're trying to escape from something else.
Good luck sorting it out!
-Brick
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