Am I Nuts?

[Chucktown PE]

I know what some of you are thinking after reading the Topic Title. "Hell yes Chucktown is nuts."

Actually I am in a bit of a career crisis and wanted some advice.

I have seriously been thinking about applying to medical school for the fall of 2011. I don't know if it's even possible because I have to get a biology and organic chemistry prerequisite in and that assumes that I don't need to retake General Chemistry. I think I could begin my prerequisite course work in January 2010 at the College of Charleston and knock it out by the end of the Summer 2010. Of course I'd be working full time. Then I'd have a month or two to study for the MCAT, then take the MCAT in September 2010. Then I think I could apply to MUSC for enrollment in August 2011.

So, am I nuts? Probably so. But I freaking hate my job right now. It's totally unrewarding and I've been talking to some of my friends that are doctors and they love it. If I am going to do this it will obviously require a ridiculous amount of work and sacrifice on both mine and my family's part. Not only financially, which will really hurt, but in time. I'd pretty much be a ghost for a while.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[ElCid03]

Grasshopper,

Do or do not there is not try.

Medical school is not a bad path, but if you are trying to escape the drudgery of project management it will follow you there too. Doctors have to worry about how much the insurance reimbursements are this month just as much as they worry about a paintent's diagnosis. A fundamental shift is coming in how medicine works in this country. Doctors are going to see some changes to compensation practices that they might not care for such as those starting to take shape in the financial industry. MUSC is a fine school, but you will go into a great deal of debt to switch careers.

I think that the first question that you must ask yourself is this: "Is medicine by passion?" Do you want to practice medicine because your passion is helping people live better lives? If you can say yes without a seond thought than by all means become a doctor. If you can't then I recommened some more self reflection.

Here's an interesting idea if you really want to go to medical school: become a military doctor. My great grandfather spent the morning on June 6, 1944 on a hospital ship patching up the men brought off of Omaha Beach. The services never have enough doctors because you can make so much more money in private practice. They pay for medical school, and yes there is a long service committment for that investment, but you can do medical school for free. If helping people is your true passion, then it will not matter to you whether or not your making a hefty private industry salary at first. You can serve, transfer your commission to the reserve component, serve part time and still have a retirement check in the end along with a fat 401(k).

Good luck with what ever you may decide.

 

[Dleg]

^Or become a commissioned officer with the US Public Health Service. Same salary and benefits as the military. Then, you can help underserved peoples AND implement the dreaded electronic medical records program, and fly to your remotest patients in a black helicopter. But, the PHS will pay off your medical school loans.

Seriously. If you're going to do this, do it now. You're still young enough that it might all work out. The biggest issue in my mind would be the tuition costs, but if you can only embrace Uncle Fed, that could be covered....

 

[benbo]

You could always take the pre-requisites and the MCAT. But two things to carefully consider-

1. How are you going to support your family for the next 6 plus years?

2. You have no idea how the health care proposals might change the career in the next few years. Maybe not at all, maybe a lot. But it's something to look into. I would have thought that you, of all people, would have considered this angle.

Plus, and I hate to mention it, there is always the chance you will do all of this prep and not get into an allopathic med school. You not only have to score high on the MCAT and get high grades, you need medically related research and extracurriculars as well in most cases.

FWIW check out www.aamc.org - they have a practice MCAT that's sort of fun.

 

[wilheldp_PE]

You could always take the pre-requisites and the MCAT. But two things to carefully consider-1. How are you going to support your family for the next 6 plus years?

2. You have no idea how the health care proposals might change the career in the next few years. Maybe not at all, maybe a lot. But it's something to look into. I would have thought that you, of all people, would have considered this angle.

Those are the two points I thought of when I read Chuck's first post. It's not so much a financial investment as it is a time investment. Doctors go to school/residency for a decade...and that's 6 more years (assuming your undergrad counts for everything needed for med school) where you won't be drawing a salary, while at the same time paying tuition for med school.

Then, at the end of all that, doctors might be paid the same as us engineers thanks to the the "public option health care plan".

 

[Guest]

What is actually drawing you to the medical profession aside from anecdotal information from some people who have offered that they love the job? Is there a way to harness this love in another career path that might not require as much time/financial investment but yield the same result? Perhaps something that you can build upon your existing education/experience/proficiency?

Have you considered nursing school? Not as much time investment, plenty of fast-track degree oppotunities including on-line degrees, loan forgiveness for entering particular career-fields with limited time invested, and ... wait for it ....

In all seriousness ... something to consider. I considered it once but I happen to be happy with engineering. I might do it if I suddenly found myself unemployable.

JR

 

[testee]

You're nuts.

 

[benbo]

THe technical part of medicine is probably fun. But one thing I would do (if you're not already doing it) if I were considering this get my ass down and volunteer major time at a hospital, nursing home, heath care or hospice program. See what it's like dealing with sick people, since that's what most doctors do. In my experience there is nothing so emotionally draining.

 

[Chucktown PE]

You could always take the pre-requisites and the MCAT. But two things to carefully consider-1. How are you going to support your family for the next 6 plus years?

2. You have no idea how the health care proposals might change the career in the next few years. Maybe not at all, maybe a lot. But it's something to look into. I would have thought that you, of all people, would have considered this angle.

Plus, and I hate to mention it, there is always the chance you will do all of this prep and not get into an allopathic med school. You not only have to score high on the MCAT and get high grades, you need medically related research and extracurriculars as well in most cases.

FWIW check out www.aamc.org - they have a practice MCAT that's sort of fun.

I have definitely thought about all of this.

A little background, I was very close to trying to get into medical school after I finished graduate school in 03. I really wish I had. The reason I didn't was because I talked to some doctors that were close family friends that were in their mid-40s, in the prime of their careers, and they were really frustrated with being doctors because of the red tape, insurance companies, etc. In fact they told me point blank, 'do not go to medical school.' This is still in the back of my mind as a reason not to do it.

Obviously I have looked at the financial burden this would place on my family. I'm not an idiot. Basically, my wife would have to go back to work. I have enough money to pay the in-state tuition without taking out any loans, but that assumes we don't buy a house and continue renting, which would probably be smart because we'd need to move for a residency program anyway.

Lastly, I wouldn't quit my current job until I actually started medical school. All my prerequisites would be done during night school. I'm pretty confident that with my GPA from Clemson, and assuming I could pull a decent GPA for the prerequisites I could get in. But you never know.

As far as what's drawing me to it, it's both the desire to help people, and another thing I love about the medical profession is the constant learning that doctors are encourage/required to undertake. I'm not learning shit in my job right now and I hate it. I'm not improving myself or my career. Further background, my dad is a veterinarian and I've always loved those two aspects of his career as well. Veterinary school is also an option although it's harder to get in to Vet school than med school.

Thanks for the advice, encouragement, thoughts, etc.

 

[Dleg]

There are engineering jobs where you can help people, too, and continue to learn.... without having to go back and spend another 8% of your life in school. Have you thoroughly considered all your options as an engineer? Or have you only considered staying in the consulting field?

 

[EM_PS]

Wow, jumping into med school in pursuit of becoming a medical doctor is def a heavy commitment! There are so many branches & fields in the medical industry, many not requiring that level of time & financial expenditure. Poss consider some of those (radiologist, dosimetrist come to mind) or supposedly biomedical engineering is an up & coming field, and one in which you have more of an "in" in.

But hell, if you freaking hate what you're doing now, its best to pursue something sooner than later (esp while young) - good luck!

 

[Wolverine]

Good book for you - Pathfinder, by Nicholas Lore.

Nobody should stay in a job they despise, with people they hate, on a career path that ends in a cul-de-sac. Read it, learn it, live it. Well, at least consider it.

Explore the untraditional - find a career path that fits all your skills. [Here's where I would normally insert a joke about a career path as a page to Mark Foley, but making a life changing decision to redefine your career is a serious subject that takes a lot of balls]

(as does Mark Foley)

 

[Capt Worley PE]

You could always take the pre-requisites and the MCAT. But two things to carefully consider-1. How are you going to support your family for the next 6 plus years?

2. You have no idea how the health care proposals might change the career in the next few years. Maybe not at all, maybe a lot. But it's something to look into. I would have thought that you, of all people, would have considered this angle.

That pretty much sums up what I thought on the subject.

Have you considered nursing school? Not as much time investment, plenty of fast-track degree oppotunities including on-line degrees, loan forgiveness for entering particular career-fields with limited time invested, and ... wait for it ....

That's a good avenue to look at. I looked at doing that back in 94, but don't really like 'yucky medical stuff' and to be quite honest, I'm not much of a people person.

Oh, I just wanted to post that pic again, too.

In fact they told me point blank, 'do not go to medical school.' This is still in the back of my mind as a reason not to do it.

Dude, I've heard the same thing. I'd heed their advice.

Nobody should stay in a job they despise, with people they hate, on a career path that ends in a cul-de-sac.

Good point.

Chuck, I'd start looking for a new job in engineering. Maybe biomedical engineering.

 

[chaosiscash]

If you just hate your job (place of employment), find another one. Despite popular belief, there are lots of companies still hiring qualified people, especially if you're willing to move. If you hate your career, and want to be a doctor, and you're family is supportive, and you can make it work financially, etc, go back to school. It really can be that simple.

How does the wife feel about it? You said she'd have to go back to work, but what about the childcare responsibilities? I can imagine during your school, residency, etc that you will not have as much time as you'd like for family. That could leave your wife going back to work full time, as well as continuing to provide primary care for the kids. If she's 100% supportive of that, thats great. Just something to think about.

A possibly similar anecdote. One of my buddies at Clemson, a ME, graduated with me in 2002 and went to work for a local company in Greenville. He worked for a year or two and decided he hated his job and "wasn't ever going to make the money he wanted to", so he went back to law school. After several years (his wife was able to support them during the time he was in school), he graduated and started practicing. He is still searching for what he wants be, and makes less than I do. I realize every situation is different, all I'm saying is make sure that it's the career you dislike, and not the job. And also be sure that medicine is the career you want, because once you make the commitment, it will be much more difficult to change careers again.

Good luck with your decisions. FWIW, without knowing you, I think you'll have no problem getting into MUSC.

 

[Chucktown PE]

THe technical part of medicine is probably fun. But one thing I would do (if you're not already doing it) if I were considering this get my ass down and volunteer major time at a hospital, nursing home, heath care or hospice program. See what it's like dealing with sick people, since that's what most doctors do. In my experience there is nothing so emotionally draining.

Good idea. I may look at doing that. I think I would prefer to do something more with procedures rather than front line type patient care.

There are engineering jobs where you can help people, too, and continue to learn.... without having to go back and spend another 8% of your life in school. Have you thoroughly considered all your options as an engineer? Or have you only considered staying in the consulting field?

Also thought about that. I am going to try to start getting involved in Water for People or Engineers without Borders. I have looked at doing something other than consulting work but I think my frustrations with the engineering profession would increase, not the other way around.

But hell, if you freaking hate what you're doing now, its best to pursue something sooner than later (esp while young) - good luck!

That was my thought. Time to shit or get off the pot. I just think that I'll truly hate myself if I wake up 5 more years from now, as I am doing right now, and say "I wish I'd gone to medical school when I had the chance".

Good book for you - Pathfinder, by Nicholas Lore.
Nobody should stay in a job they despise, with people they hate, on a career path that ends in a cul-de-sac. Read it, learn it, live it. Well, at least consider it.

Explore the untraditional - find a career path that fits all your skills. [Here's where I would normally insert a joke about a career path as a page to Mark Foley, but making a life changing decision to redefine your career is a serious subject that takes a lot of balls]

(as does Mark Foley)

Thanks. I'll definitely pick it up.

Dude, I've heard the same thing. I'd heed their advice.

That's easier said than done. The fact is that they still have very rewarding careers and I don't.

How does the wife feel about it? You said she'd have to go back to work, but what about the childcare responsibilities? I can imagine during your school, residency, etc that you will not have as much time as you'd like for family. That could leave your wife going back to work full time, as well as continuing to provide primary care for the kids. If she's 100% supportive of that, thats great. Just something to think about.
Good luck with your decisions. FWIW, without knowing you, I think you'll have no problem getting into MUSC.

She says she's supportive but I don't think she understands how seriously I'm considering it. The lack of family time/financial burden is the one thing that is really holding me back. One of my good friends (former roomate/fraternity brother) is doing his fellowship in cardiology right now at MUSC. I am totally jealous of his career, not so much his 60-70 hour a week work schedule. But I think if I liked what I was doing it would feel like 60-70 hours a week.

 

[Kephart P.E.]

I don't know your background, but I would try a different a couple different companies/field before I gave up on Engineering and became a Doc. I was fed up with Consulting until a worked for another Firm and today 1 1/2 years later I am pretty happy.

I know a couple Doctors and most of them wish they had become Physician Assistant's or Lawyers. That is except for the Surgeon I know, but really his ego is so big I don't know if there is any field he would be happy in except Politics.

 

[Dexman1349]

A modified approach to the medical path would be to get into Nursing as JR pointed out, then a short time later (I think the curent requirements are 2 years) would be to go back again to be a Nurse Practicioner (sp?). A NP can basically perform the same duties as an MD and get there with considerably less time in school.

There are some great nursing programs out there that may help you out tremendously. My wife just finished an "accelerated" program here in Denver and bascially got her Bachelor's of Nursing in under 12 months (started in mid-January, ended in December, but had a pair of 2-week breaks). She used her clinical time to explore the various specialties and found one she really enjoys. She is absolutely loving her new job, and after about 7 months on the job she is already making as much as I am (plus she is hourly compared to my salary pay...). She went into the program with the intention of becoming a Nurse Practicioner, but so far she is happy where she's at.

There are some accelerated programs (available to people that already have a Bachelor's degree) that can get you a 2nd BS within 2 years (some in under 1).

Just a thought...

 

[MGX]

Do you want to hang out with sick/old people all day?

Most patients aren't 20 year old coeds (unless you specialize in VD) :bananadoggywow:

 

[Dexman1349]

Do you want to hang out with sick/old people all day?
Most patients aren't 20 year old coeds (unless you specialize in VD) :bananadoggywow:

Or you could specialize in Breast Augmentation...

 

[klk]

I don't know your background, but I would try a different a couple different companies/field before I gave up on Engineering and became a Doc. I was fed up with Consulting until a worked for another Firm and today 1 1/2 years later I am pretty happy.

I second this, not from personal experience, but from other consultants I know. One engineer I know who worked for a different company was getting really fed up with the bureaucratic red tape of managing projects. He was initially hired by the firm many years ago to do process design work, not project management. But he ended up having to manage projects and deal with red tape instead of doing the fun process work. When he resigned last month (and started up his own firm), he ended up taking all of his fun process work with him (since clients had hired his former company for his experience) and now he doesn't have to deal with the bureaucratic red tape of his former job and is so much happier.

Also, getting involved with Water for People or some other professional organization (like WEF or your local WEF MA) also makes this job feel more rewarding, in my opinion. This also helps with the networking options, so if colleagues at other firms find out you're unhappy at your current job, they are more likely to find a position for you in their organization even if they don't have the position listed.