The famous cut score

[NJmike PE]

This is why nobody sticks around.  They think we're mean.

Survival of the fittest

 

[P-E]

Just don't post about the pats.

 

[Sapper PE LS]

I'm a pats fan unless the Bucs are winning whatever game they are playing.

 

[Road Guy]

Everyone just breathe.....

 

[P-E]

Cut score happens.

 

[KatyLied P.E.]

opcorn:

 

[ptatohed]

LOL, I Don't believe the attachment, not an NCEES verified document, anybody can just make this up. If its an NCEES document, then I would believe it. if you look at it, the cut score varies from 47% to 61% of the items for PE and 70% for FE. Please confirm a link from NCEES and the I'll believe this.

It doesn't really matter if you believe it or not. But the information was provided by NCEES and posted on the CA Board of Pro Eng's, LS's and Geo's. http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/exam_statistics.shtml It's not "made up". Yes, cut scores vary from PE discipline to PE discipline and, of course, vary from the FE. I don't think that is any surprise.

 

[knight1fox3]

LOL, I Don't believe the attachment, not an NCEES verified document, anybody can just make this up. If its an NCEES document, then I would believe it. if you look at it, the cut score varies from 47% to 61% of the items for PE and 70% for FE. Please confirm a link from NCEES and the I'll believe this.

It doesn't really matter if you believe it or not. But the information was provided by NCEES and posted on the CA Board of Pro Eng's, LS's and Geo's. http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/exam_statistics.shtml It's not "made up". Yes, cut scores vary from PE discipline to PE discipline and, of course, vary from the FE. I don't think that is any surprise.

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=24336#entry7233267

 

[WR/ENV_Instructor]

Watch the NCEES video on scoring here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFvfJBTBGU

There is no magic # to get right, b/c you don't know how many will be thrown out before the test is scored. You don't know if problems thrown out were problems you got correct on the exam (if thrown out, hurts your chances of passing) or got wrong on the exam (if thrown out, helps your chances of passing.) More info can be found here: http://ncees.org/exams/scoring/

 

[Sapper PE LS]

There is no magic # to get right, b/c you don't know how many will be thrown out before the test is scored. You don't know if problems thrown out were problems you got correct on the exam (if thrown out, hurts your chances of passing) or got wrong on the exam (if thrown out, helps your chances of passing.) More info can be found here: http://ncees.org/exams/scoring/

I'm not sure that you are correct about the part that I've bolded. I am pretty sure that if you get a problem correct your chances of passing don't change in any negative way (it could only be a positive change) if they decide to throw that question out. I'm not sure how it works, but I really think that the premise of what you are saying here is incorrect.

 

[catinthehat]

Sapper,

I believe he is referring to the concept that a cut score is developed based on the performance of the exam takers for a given exam. If an examinee got 5 out of 10 questions right, and 3 of the questions he got right are thrown out, he now has a final score of 2 out of 7, or 29%. If another examinee got 5 out of 10 right and 0 of the questions he got right are thrown out, his final score is 5 out of 7, or 71%. Both of these examinees got a 50% initially, but after bad questions were thrown out, only one passed. Thus, it would stand to reason that how many problems you get right as well as WHICH problems you get right has a direct affect on your passing potential.

 

[Sapper PE LS]

I know what you are saying and what he was implying, but I think both of you are incorrect. I think what they actually do is if an examinee got 5 out of 10 right, and they throw three out, he now has 5 out of 7, thus the removal of the bad questions doesn't hurt correct answers, only helps wrong answers. In other words, they count up total number of right answers. Then they apply that against total number of questions used to create the "cut score" of the exam. So if you correctly answered 53 out of 80, and they threw 3 out, then your score is now 53 / 77. They adjust the actual passing percentage based on this somehow, which is why the person last test season who failed with a diagnostic showing 56 correct answers still failed, because they probably make the percentage higher to offset the reduced number of qualifying questions.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

This makes the assumption that the questions that were thrown out had a correct answer.

 

[Sapper PE LS]

Yep... which is why these discussions are

POINTLESS

 

[catinthehat]

Generally, If law makers get to make decisions on the direction of policy, does that make all public discussions pertaining to those decisions pointless? There are many things we do not directly vote on that merit public discussion regardless because they affect us. We as the engineering community are responsible for placing qualified individuals on boards who establish rules for passing our exams. It is our responsibilty as a community to keep those discussions alive, no matter how many times in the past they have been raised.

Back to the topic, while it is true I haven't a clue or direct say in how the cut score is calculated, I would be upset if I found out that Sapper's hypothesis was correct. Some of the questions that may be thrown out are questions that had no correct answer to begin with. I would not want a fellow test taker to receive a higher score than me because they were rewarded for arbitrary lucky guessing.

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

In theory, arbitrary guessing would yield an average score of 25% based on a 4-possible answer scenario.

 

[Sapper PE LS]

catinthehat - but what if the problem has a right answer but is just really hard (and deemed too hard for minimal competency) and so it is thrown out. Now suppose somebody got it right because they are that friggin good at engineering and math. Would it be fair that they are penalized because too many other people are dumber than them? No. Which is exactly why I think it is as I propose. Because right answers can not be used against you and your method results in just such a possibility, whereas the risk is taken with the wrong answers, expecting that somebody who didn't get a potentially really difficult or oddly worded problem (with a real solution) correct would indicate that they are still minimally competent and should have a fighting chance of a pass rate, but whereas a guy who just really got that ridiculously challenging one correct potentially having a lower chance of passing because one he got right throw out is a risk that is unwise for the examiners to take.

Also, do the math and you'll see that if my proposition is incorrect, then at no time could a failing percentage of 70 = a number of correct answers equal to or greater than 56 but it certainly could if my proposition is correct... and we've seen evidence just this past May / June that a 56 at least in one case = fail.

 

[Sapper PE LS]

And yes it's pointless because all it does is make you question that which you can not change. NCEES is not a government agency, not an elected office, nor is it subject to the majority will of the engineering community. They have their way, they do it their way. We can guess and speculate and talk about it all we want and at the end of the day all you've done is not be billable at your day job. Thus......

POINTLESS

 

[Dexman PE PMP]

Sapper, that's the Democrat response. The Republicans won the Senate, and since they hate the poor, anything that can be construed as a guess would be thrown out.

 

[DanHalen]