Is it true that you don't have to be an engineer in some states to obtain a PE?

[IlPadrino]

It is well understood in industry that the best engineers unequivocally come up from the floor like I did. .

.

.

and that's why all 3 wanted me in engineering mgmt.

Only a handful of engineers in the country can boast that -- if any.

If you're interested in moving to Florida, I hear there's some challenging work in the stormwater and real-estate business. A person of your caliber would be a great fit for YKW - though I'm not sure the state is big enough for both of your egos. On second thought, maybe telecommuting would be better.

 

[MEPE2B]

I can feel for the hands-on engineers without an education -- I was one.
It is well understood in industry that the best engineers unequivocally come up from the floor like I did. You not only have superior blueprint reading and visualization skills but also the unparalled experience to finish a product from prototype to launch -- Not to mention the millions you save companies by visualizing mistakes in drawings before the prototypes.

But you have to take your craft to the next level to get respect -- and that's why I graduated with highest honors from a top school and achieved both national honors and national dean's list. GM, GE, & NASA, for example, have experience with engineers that came up from the floor and concurred they make superior engineers -- and that's why all 3 wanted me in engineering mgmt.

Only a handful of engineers in the country can boast that -- if any.

And the best is yet to come.

I can't see the expression on your face, so I can't tell if you are serious...

 

[Sschell]

I think hes serious.

 

[BluSkyy]

I don't have much use for people that think one way or the other is superior. In my experience people are superior at what they do...their path to where they are today is evidence of their ability and success, not the cause. I distrust someone who says "I have a degree in this so I know better than you" just as much as I distrust someone who says "I have done this forever so I know better than you."

 

[sehad]

I don't have much use for people that think one way or the other is superior. In my experience people are superior at what they do...their path to where they are today is evidence of their ability and success, not the cause. I distrust someone who says "I have a degree in this so I know better than you" just as much as I distrust someone who says "I have done this forever so I know better than you."

amen

 

[hrun]

In high school we were taught about a great native indian chief that loved trigonometry
SOH-CAH-TOA

sine = Opp/Hyp

cosine = Adjacent/Hyp

tan = Opp/Adjacent

I still use that one today.

Me too! to the indian chief.

 

[ramicoce]

Right... the indian chief. Only, he didn't know anything about trig. In fact, he hated math and despised his parents for naming him that. He just liked to soak his toes in the water.

 

[ROBIAMEIT]

No need to yell... I can read you just fine. I know you're blowing smoke when you write "the PE requires you to figure tricky questions...". I'm sure you meant the PE *exam*. I don't disagree with much of what you wrote about the exam, except for "the exam has NOTHING to do with what kind of Engineer you are". Were it so, the NCEES would be an even bigger farce than most anyone believes.

I'm sorry i yelled. I was using the CAPS to TRY to covey emotion. It happens. I was NOT blowing smoke when i made that statement . . . . "the PE requires. . . ." i was refering to the Exam. thats what the discussion was about. And i stand by my statement about the kind of Engineer you are. I have seen children pass the PE Exam just 4 years out of college, because theyre good test takers and are fresh out of school. The guys who have been around for years are MUCH better engineers than they are. PERIOD. They just can't seem to pass some silly exam. Most of the questions have NOTHING to do with the day to day tasks of a typical engineer - at least in my field. Its all about book learning. In fact, the last exam i tried to pass had questions on it that werent even topics in 2 or three of the reference books i had with me that specific topic. How in the name of all thats good can that be any kind of indication of the kind of engineer you are.?????

Regarding your statements about kindergarten, Maryland, and experience, please reread what I wrote (quoted here for your convenience: "By and far, most people registered are the traditional balance (ABET-accredited education, 4 years of experience (give or take a few years), and FE/EIT and PE exam.")

i read your response. The topic of this thread is "Is it true that you don't have to be an engineer in some states to be a PE?"

my response was YES. infact . . . im MD you dont even have to have a H.S. Diploma . . . i was citing a specific example and to emphasizing the farce the P.E. Exam has become.

 

[chaosiscash]

I can feel for the hands-on engineers without an education -- I was one.
It is well understood in industry that the best engineers unequivocally come up from the floor like I did. You not only have superior blueprint reading and visualization skills but also the unparalled experience to finish a product from prototype to launch -- Not to mention the millions you save companies by visualizing mistakes in drawings before the prototypes.

But you have to take your craft to the next level to get respect -- and that's why I graduated with highest honors from a top school and achieved both national honors and national dean's list. GM, GE, & NASA, for example, have experience with engineers that came up from the floor and concurred they make superior engineers -- and that's why all 3 wanted me in engineering mgmt.

Only a handful of engineers in the country can boast that -- if any.

And the best is yet to come.

^^ I love this guy. This stuff just cracks me up.

 

[Dark Knight]

I can feel for the hands-on engineers without an education -- I was one.
It is well understood in industry that the best engineers unequivocally come up from the floor like I did. You not only have superior blueprint reading and visualization skills but also the unparalled experience to finish a product from prototype to launch -- Not to mention the millions you save companies by visualizing mistakes in drawings before the prototypes.

But you have to take your craft to the next level to get respect -- and that's why I graduated with highest honors from a top school and achieved both national honors and national dean's list. GM, GE, & NASA, for example, have experience with engineers that came up from the floor and concurred they make superior engineers -- and that's why all 3 wanted me in engineering mgmt.

Only a handful of engineers in the country can boast that -- if any.

And the best is yet to come.

I know of a firm in Orlando, the finest one there, that can use your abilities. If you are interested let me know. I am sure you are going to love the owner and the associates.

 

[IlPadrino]

I'm sorry i yelled. I was using the CAPS to TRY to covey emotion. It happens. I was NOT blowing smoke when i made that statement . . . . "the PE requires. . . ." i was refering to the Exam. thats what the discussion was about. And i stand by my statement about the kind of Engineer you are. I have seen children pass the PE Exam just 4 years out of college, because theyre good test takers and are fresh out of school. The guys who have been around for years are MUCH better engineers than they are. PERIOD. They just can't seem to pass some silly exam. Most of the questions have NOTHING to do with the day to day tasks of a typical engineer - at least in my field. Its all about book learning. In fact, the last exam i tried to pass had questions on it that werent even topics in 2 or three of the reference books i had with me that specific topic. How in the name of all thats good can that be any kind of indication of the kind of engineer you are.?????
i read your response. The topic of this thread is "Is it true that you don't have to be an engineer in some states to be a PE?"

my response was YES. infact . . . im MD you dont even have to have a H.S. Diploma . . . i was citing a specific example and to emphasizing the farce the P.E. Exam has become.

My misunderstanding... I didn't think your text, just below a quote from me, was more directed to the title of the thread than my response.

You've clearly got an axe to grind regarding the PE exam... probably best to let the scabs heal... before I rub salt in the wound. How's that for lots of metaphors?!?

 

[KnowledgeAcquirer]

What would be nice is a succinct, concise, easy-to-grasp table that displays, by state, the requirement(s) for submitting an application to take the PE Exam.

As I've stated on another forum, despite having years of experience in exempt industries, participation in professional organizations such as IEEE, ACM, and ASEE, the fact that I have not worked under a licensed PE in my specific discipline, is an entry barrier to taking the PE in the state that I reside in. Fact is, my work experience in industry exempt areas have been across several states, not just a single one.

The table that I refer to would enable someone like me to figure out what state to apply for taking the PE Exam and then arranging for lodging, not to mention, shipping my reference materials for use on the PE Exam.

Right now I am going through the onerous task of looking up each State Board through NCEES and listing the details for each state.

 

[Casey]

The table that I refer to would enable someone like me to figure out what state to apply for taking the PE Exam and then arranging for lodging, not to mention, shipping my reference materials for use on the PE Exam.

You can also include a note for states that allow proctoring of exams.

ELSES tells you here:

http://www.els-examreg.org/registration.php

 

[benbo]

What would be nice is a succinct, concise, easy-to-grasp table that displays, by state, the requirement(s) for submitting an application to take the PE Exam.
As I've stated on another forum, despite having years of experience in exempt industries, participation in professional organizations such as IEEE, ACM, and ASEE, the fact that I have not worked under a licensed PE in my specific discipline, is an entry barrier to taking the PE in the state that I reside in. Fact is, my work experience in industry exempt areas have been across several states, not just a single one.

The table that I refer to would enable someone like me to figure out what state to apply for taking the PE Exam and then arranging for lodging, not to mention, shipping my reference materials for use on the PE Exam.

Right now I am going through the onerous task of looking up each State Board through NCEES and listing the details for each state.

I've got to ask you why you would be interested in taking the exam when you will not be able to get licensed in your state? Are you just taking it for personal gratification? In that case I think California would be good because they allow for an industry exemption. If you actually want to practice somewhere, I would suggest taking it in the state you want to practice.

Here's the reference you need for cali

http://www.pels.ca.gov/pubs/forms/perefsfrm.pdf

As you can see, NPER (No PE Required)

 

[Sschell]

cali is the only state that has industry exemption? is that just in electrical?

I thought all states had mechanical industry exemptions.

 

[benbo]

cali is the only state that has industry exemption? is that just in electrical?
I thought all states had mechanical industry exemptions.

Actually I don't know anything about anywhere else. I only know about Cali. Apparently Hawaii doesn't (where this person is from) or I don't think there would be any issue.

But you can get by documenting fewer years exp. in Cali also.

 

[Dleg]

Here is the NCEES survey results - you have to choose the applicable subject (probaly PE licensing requirements), and then from there you can view all state's requirements for dozens of PE licensing questions you might have.

And here are the same results in a (maybe) easier to digest format, pretty close to the "table" you request.

 

[KnowledgeAcquirer]

I've got to ask you why you would be interested in taking the exam when you will not be able to get licensed in your state? Are you just taking it for personal gratification? In that case I think California would be good because they allow for an industry exemption. If you actually want to practice somewhere, I would suggest taking it in the state you want to practice.
Here's the reference you need for cali

http://www.pels.ca.gov/pubs/forms/perefsfrm.pdf

As you can see, NPER (No PE Required)

I am interested in taking the exam since it is required to be licensed in any state; including the one that I reside in currently. A PE license is the requirement for State/City/Municipal jobs that are titled Engineer.

Yes, the personal gratification of also passing it is another reason. I tried the the NCEES Sample Exam first before any review, without resorting to any reference material. The only questions that stumped me were the ones relating to the NEC Code (e.g., questions related to grounding). However, I got almost all of those right since I've done electrical wiring of my own home and had to resort to the NEC Code (one of the reasons that I already possessed the NEC 2002 Code and Handbook). More importantly, the Computers depth questions are a lot easier than the Cisco certification exam questions. (I hope that NCEES doesn't make the Computers section harder simply because of this statement. Unlike engineering where one has reference material, the Cisco certified engineer has to make changes to operating equipment "on-the-fly"; can't go look it up in some reference book).

My "beef" with the PE Exam is the requirement that the qualifying work experience be under a licensed engineer in the specific discipline. This means that all of my work experience in exempt industries under Ph. Ds, IEEE Fellows/Life Fellows, etc. are for naught in obtaining a PE license since these supervisors aren't licensed PEs. Thus I am not qualified to be an Engineer in any State/City/Municipal government since I do not have qualifying work experience under a licensed PE. However, I am quite qualified to design and build medical devices, VLSI circuits, WMDs, satellites, submarines, precision guidance systems, real-time software systems, etc. All of this work experience is useless in applying for the PE Exam.

Then there are the software engineering related questions in the Computer Depth area. Almost all of the program managers or supervisors that were above me were not degreed engineers nor did they possess computer science degrees. The people that I supervised that performed software engineering or even programming --- only 2 were EEs in my entire career.

I personally think the PE Exam is much more achievable (i.e., passable) than the FE Exam since it is in a discipline that I have experience and thus is in my comfort zone. Others on this forum/board may disagree (nice part about a democracy) that the PE Exam is easier than the FE Exam; however, my work experience in the exempt industries actually had me utilize the Computers, Power, and Electronics/Communications/Control areas. When I first attempted the FE Sample Exam, I think I got only 5 questions right. Thus, my HAPPINESS and sense of relief when I received the results stating that I had passed the FE Exam on my first attempt.

I wrote to my State Board and told them that I am extremely interested in the October 2008 PE Exam since it is the last one that will actually test one's knowledge across a breadth of Electrical Engineering knowledge. I always thought the characteristic of a good engineer was the creative application of Electrical Engineering knowledge across the spectrum.

Another obvious "hole" in the PE Exam and licensing process is the fact that no "credit" is given for continuing education or participation in professional societies (e.g., IEEE, ACM, CMG, ASEE). Again, my experience in the exempt industries (IlPadrino may want to comment on this) is that an engineer had to take continuing education courses. Thus, I was able to take EECS graduate courses, Image Processing, and Digital Signal Processing courses (at that time companies paid for such as long as we got some type of certificate or passing grade --- you can see I am dating myself). On the software engineering side, I taught as an Adjunct Faculty member; another way to keep up one's engineering skills and knowledge. Besides ancient Fortran, Z80, 808X, C, C++, and Java, I gained DB knowledge (Oracle/Sybase/Ingres), RTOS, and X-Windows skills. The annual (in one company semi-annual) performance reviews had blocks for identifying continuing education achieved and future continuing education courses. Of course I am dinosaur since the larger companies also had in-house engineering courses in my heyday. The ones I took were taught by Ph.D degreed engineers who also were Adjunct Faculty or had taught university engineering courses, but were now corporate employees. I learned about about Radars, ELINT, SIGINT, communications theory this way.

I realize that NCEES is trying to get the various states to require that licensed PEs now take continuing education courses but such credit should also be taken into account for those who want to take the PE Exam. While I had not used Bode plots directly in my work experience in eons, I was able to recall what it was about because of the continuing education courses that I took. None of the licensed PEs that I know in my state have taken any continuing education courses. Not that my state offers much in this area of knowledge.

Now that I've been exposed to the different sides of engineering (FE Exam), I want to attempt the PE Exam in Mechanical and Environmental Engineering disciplines in the future. I also would be interested in some option to take the different Depth exams in the Electrical discipline (this my personal gratification side). Besides, based on the comments that are posted at this board, it may be the only way to judge where one's weakness is.

 

[KnowledgeAcquirer]

Here is the NCEES survey results - you have to choose the applicable subject (probaly PE licensing requirements), and then from there you can view all state's requirements for dozens of PE licensing questions you might have.
And here are the same results in a (maybe) easier to digest format, pretty close to the "table" you request.

Thank you. It still seems user-unfriendly in presentation.. I did note that Cali requires 2 years of experience and references.

Someone had mentioned Oregon and Colorado earlier.

 

[benbo]

I am interested in taking the exam since it is required to be licensed in any state; including the one that I reside in currently. A PE license is the requirement for State/City/Municipal jobs that are titled Engineer.

I'm sure you're aware that you still won't be able to be licensed in the state where you live. You will have to meet their experience requirements. But since you plan to take multiple PE exams it sort of seems like you are just the sort of person who likes taking tests - which is fine - so it doesn't really matter.

Of course you will have to document additional experience that doesn't overlap for each of these exams. I don't know if you can take the mechanical exam and get licensed in mechanical without any mechanical experience. Maybe your experiecne includes some mechanical work. But IMO Passing that test should not be enough for someone to actually get licensed to fo mechanical work. But who knows?