Everything Happens for a Reason?

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RG asked this question "not in a religious sense", but I don't see how you could ask it any other way.  If there is a reason for things, then there must be a "Reasoner".  Just like a creation requires a creator.  I do believe God has his hand on our lives.  All things, bad and good, can be for a greater purpose that we may or may not ever know about.  To believe in fate or anything like it without believing in a god to control it is contradictory IMHO.
I think believing in some "greater power" guiding our lives serves a horrible disservice to everything around you (natural science, people, decisions, etc) and is a cop-out for people who refuse to acknowledge their own accountability.

https://recoverynetworktoronto.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/****-teh-devil.png?w=640&h=360

 
I know you're just :poking: goodal but personally I think I add value to the lives of people around me despite being a hardcore theist.

 
^Is that image supposed to be a persuasive argument?  Or just a big F U to everyone who is not an athiest?  I'm not exactly a very religious person, but that just screams "I'm an asshole so don't listen to anything I have to say".

 
I'm not saying religious people don't add value to the lives of others. I'm saying giving credit and/or blame to a higher power for things in our lives is childish. You're smart enough to know that your actions/decisions and the actions/decisions of those around out lead to the outcome you got. Wolvie said it best with his probability post above.

 
Agree to disagree. It doesn't make sense to me, with the sheer number of decisions made outside of my control, why my life has turned out as optimally as it has without some sort of external guidance. There really should be more senseless tragedies scattered randomly throughout my life and yet even the sad times make sense in the larger context of where I'm heading. But I'm not nearly sufficient enough of a sample size to prove anything.

 
A big part of me wants to believe in an afterlife so that the shitbags of this planet can suffer for eternity.  Does that make me a terrible person?

 
And here I thought Dex had moved out of the US to get away from intolerance and bigotry, but it seems to have followed him across the world.
Oh-Its-A-Deep-Burn-Funny-Meme-Picture.jpg


 
I'm not going to take the bait Dex and BTW I would not post something that flamatory even as a joke.  I will say that my faith in God is not because I am week or lazy or stupid (I am an engineer afterall :) ), but rather after looking at the amazing, intricate, complex world around me, I cannot help but see evidence of our Creator.  Not to mention the affect (effect?) faith has had on my life and the lives of those around me.  If you want to call it fate, so be it.  I see it as the Almighty's hand on my life molding me into something better.  Not better in a haughty "I'm better than you" sense, but better as in being able to be used in a greater way or for a greater purpose.  Yes, we are all responsible for our actions.  God or his opponent do not make anyone do anything.  We will all be judged for our actions one day.  I chose many years ago to follow a christian guidelines for my actions.  If you choose otherwise, that's your choice to make.  We all have free will.  Something no other creation was given.  So do I believe everything we do is predestined?  No, but I agree if you look at it through God's eyes he has seen everything already, so he already knows the outcome of our decisions.  That part is like trying to wrap your head around time travel.  Don't do it.  You won't get any where.  Even with a Delorean.  There are many, many things I don't understand about God, life, death, etc. but one thing I know with doubt is that there is a God and even though he is beyond time and space, he cares about you and me and wants to have a place in our lives.        

 
That picture was not meant as bait. I truly believe that there is no god and I believe that those who dedicate themselves to believing in him deliberately ignore a significant portion of the real world in front of them. I acknowledge the fact that the world around us is a very complex series of systems and events and that I don't/can't fully understand them all. Just because I don't understand them does not mean that I think some higher power is out there controlling it. However, I do know that there are very intelligent people who dedicate themselves to further understanding those systems, and my "faith" is in their skill. Do they understand everything? Not yet, but that still does not mean there is a higher power. Do they revise their positions based on new evidence? I hope so. If I saw overwhelming evidence of something that contradicts what I understood, I would like to think my beliefs would be revised accordingly. 

I do believe everything happens for a reason, and that reason is science (physics, biology, chemistry, psychology and statistics). Simple causality; cause and effect. There is absolutely nothing that says otherwise.

It is very awe-inspiring when you stop to think about the progression of events that lead to any given moment, even something as insignificant as the Deadpool figurine on my desk. How many people, places, decisions, etc had to come together for him to sit there? Despite all of the complexities that made that happen, every person, place, and decision can be tracked through logical means and at no point in any of it did an all-powerful "creator" emerge as responsible for any of it.

What effect has faith had on your life? I truly want to see evidence that your following of scripture is the direct cause of a better life. I know some will say that they gain strength from their fellow church followers. In that case it's not the faith that is responsible, but rather the people you choose to surround yourself with. Being around good people who care about one another leads to better outcomes for the group.

To some, religion is like the "binkie" you're given as a child; it's presence is comforting in a time of waning confidence and troubling times. Society has made it acceptable to be able to carry that mental "binkie" with you openly in public. In that regard, religion/spirituality is quite helpful. This is what I was teaching in lieu of the faith element of cub scouts. Find that thing that gives you mental strength when you need it, and you will go further in your en devours.

In order to get that "binkie" out of a something founded on a book like the bible, the vast majority of it must be ignored (including the fact it has been re-written, politically edited [King James version, anyone?], and translated from stories that weren't written down for hundreds of years after the events allegedly happened). If you have to ignore so much of the "foundation" of your religion, what is the point of following the religion? Too often I see acts carried out by religious "fundamentalists". If they are truly following the fundamentals, again I ask, what is the point of following the religion?  To me, it's like perpetuating racism. Sure, you're not flat-out racist (the fundamentalist), but you still smile when an inappropriate joke is told. That smile is just enough to keep that joke alive to be retold again and further enable the teller to continue thinking it's ok.  If you're going to follow a "book of lessons", you're better off reading something like Aesop's Fables. You know the stories are not true, but you see the moral guidance the stories provide.

I would argue that you believe in god, not because you have any actual evidence of his existence, but rather because of where you were born and who your parents are. There is no greater influence of your religion and belief structure than where you're raised. You were indoctrinated before you knew any better (given your "binkie") in a region where such religion is the social norm. Once you have that binkie, it's very hard to ever let it go (I'm still fighting with my 10 yr old about not needing hers for bed). It makes you feel good, you learn to function with it in everything you do, which then leads you to think you can never function without it. Fear of losing your binkie or being an "outsider" for not having a binkie is the biggest reason religion is perpetuated. "I needed it to get through my life, I should to give it to my kids so they can get through theirs."

A couple questions I see raised in atheist circles:

If god is an omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent being, why does evil exist (The Evidential Problem of Evil)?

Does free will truly exist if god has predetermined our future and decides if we go to heaven or hell (the paradox of free will)?

Since both rely on the existence of god, the obvious solution to both is that god does not exist.

 
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RG asked this question "not in a religious sense", but I don't see how you could ask it any other way.  If there is a reason for things, then there must be a "Reasoner".  Just like a creation requires a creator.  I do believe God has his hand on our lives.  All things, bad and good, can be for a greater purpose that we may or may not ever know about.  To believe in fate or anything like it without believing in a god to control it is contradictory IMHO.
I actually agree with goodal here in that I was thinking the same thing.... that, even though RG said 'not in a religious sense', how else could you describe the invisible guiding force in 'meant to be'?  Though I don't believe in the existence of any of history's thousands of created gods or goddesses, I agree that, if you believe there is a controlling force in your life, that is a religious belief.

goodal and I have exchanged countless PMs on the topic of religion.  I enjoyed it, thanks goodal.  :)  

 
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That picture was not meant as bait. I truly believe that there is no god and I believe that those who dedicate themselves to believing in him deliberately ignore a significant portion of the real world in front of them. I acknowledge the fact that the world around us is a very complex series of systems and events and that I don't/can't fully understand them all. Just because I don't understand them does not mean that I think some higher power is out there controlling it. However, I do know that there are very intelligent people who dedicate themselves to further understanding those

...

If god is an omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent being, why does evil exist (The Evidential Problem of Evil)?

Does free will truly exist if god has predetermined our future and decides if we go to heaven or hell (the paradox of free will)?

Since both rely on the existence of god, the obvious solution to both is that god does not exist.
While I probably wouldn't have the 8@!!$ to post the Lemmy meme you did, this is all well said and I agree with everything you wrote Dex.

I have a lot of conversations with my Christian friends.  (They're likely Christians because we live in the West.  If we lived in the Middle East, they'd likely be Muslims; and if we lived in India, they'd likely be Hindus; etc.).

Just the other day, I talked to them about a recent "exorcism" some Christian lady did to her young daughter by stripping her naked on a public beach and beating her "to remove demons".  

http://people.com/crime/california-woman-charged-exorcism-11-year-old-daughter/

I pointed out that most (hopefully all) of us would think this is lunacy.  But exorcisms are rampant in the New Testament!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcism_in_Christianity   Even Jesus himself performed many exorcisms to expel demons and evil spirits from possessed people.  As a Christian, you have to believe such things are true.  So how do you separate that in your mind?  Why were so many people possessed by demons 2000 years ago but none of us believe in demon possession today?  If we believe in the claims of the NT, how then can you say that this lady was wrong in diagnosing her daughter as being possessed?  To me, believing that all those demon possession stories described in the NT actually happened requires you to turn off logical faculties of your regular intellect in order to accept the New Testament's claims.  How do you do that?  I asked my Christian friends and I got very wishy washy answers.          

I very much respect religious people and their right to believe the things they believe, even if different than my own beliefs.  There is much good in religion.  I just personally can't believe the extraordinary (conflicting) truth claims about reality made by the world's multitude of holy books, without the required (by me) extraordinary evidence that any of the claims are true.  

 
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I was thinking about this a bit more, and I think I do at least like to believe in karma of some sort. I don't know if I actually believe in it, but I do tend to think that small things I do in my life may contribute or detract from karma for leggo in the future.

 
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I was thinking about this a bit more, and I think I do at least like to believe in karma of some sort. I don't know if I actually believe in it, but I do tend to think that small things I do in my life may contribute or detract from karma for leggo in the future.
Yeah, I too believe what comes around goes around, just not in any spiritual or supernatural sense. 

 
I'm mostly baffled on why Dex's 10-year-old isn't allowed a binkie at bedtime. I'm assuming it's a blanket or some sort? Not like an actual pacifier, right? 

 
I'm mostly baffled on why Dex's 10-year-old isn't allowed a binkie at bedtime. I'm assuming it's a blanket or some sort? Not like an actual pacifier, right? 
My 6 year old still sleeps with his infant blanket.  Excuse me.... his "boblet" (our household term for it since that is how he would call it when he was 2).  Not sure if my wife and I should encourage him to detach from it or just let nature take its course?   

 
My 6 year old still sleeps with his infant blanket.  Excuse me.... his "boblet" (our household term for it since that is how he would call it when he was 2).  Not sure if my wife and I should encourage him to detach from it or just let nature take its course?   
I'd say let nature take its course.  At 5 years old, my daughter still sucked her thumb until it bent at the tip (no joking, can you believe it?  :blink: ).  I got worried and told her that eventually, the tip of her thumb may fall off.  She tried to quit, but couldn't.  She would not be able to fall asleep without sucking her thumb so she continued...  A year had gone by and I noticed she had already quit.  I asked her when did that happen? and she replied "I don't know; don't remember"  How cool was that?  That problem just went away on its own, UNLIKE most or all of Engineering problems  -_-

 
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I'm mostly baffled on why Dex's 10-year-old isn't allowed a binkie at bedtime. I'm assuming it's a blanket or some sort? Not like an actual pacifier, right? 
Yes, it's a white blanket. Mostly because she sucks her thumb when she has it and it's causing problems with her adult teeth coming in. Dentist said if she didn't stop she would need braces (which are insanely expensive here).

No issues with her "beebee" itself. We let our 12 yr old still sleep with his "boo bears", but he doesn't suck his thumb.

Hell, I can't sleep without some form of white noise (desk fan, air conditioner, or app on my phone).

 
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