Would like some studying advice

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adg30

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So long story short I was going to take my exam on the 14th of this month, had a covid scare and rescheduled for next month, then found out I actually didn't have it but can't change back to my earlier time slot, so now it's on the 12th of next month instead. This of course is a blessing anyway since looking around on this forum just makes me feel like I was studying poorly for about the last 9 months. Here's what I've been doing so far, I originally was writing this out in a paragraph but it seemed hard to follow:

  • Took both the power and controls practice exams, power I seemed to remember more and it'd be more helpful to me anyway
  • Read the 2010 Power Reference Manual and did the questions that came with it, this took about 120 hours or 24+ weeks as I studied about 5 hours a week
  • Retook the Power exam using only the Power Handbook as reference since by then I knew I had to do CBT, to see how much better I did, and I did do better, but not as much better as I hoped to
  • Studied the parts of the Reference Handbook and the questions I didn't understand from the exam, the large ones being:

    Per Unit, since I'd basically never even heard of it before and glossed over it in the PRM since it didn't make it sound like a big deal
  • Fault Current Analysis, which is Per Unit with the added bonus of Symmetrical Components sometimes, which I knew nothing about
  • Auto transformers since the solutions for them in the sample exam didn't make much sense to me

There were other things here and there that I did but that was the bulk of it and where I am now. The original plan was to take every workday off until my test and study as if it was my job. I'd take the sample exam that came with the 2010 PRM as if I was taking the real exam, 4 hours, break, 4 hours, then work out where I was having problems. I'd pull out the sample exams my co-workers lent me and use those. They include volumes 1 thru 4 of Complex Imaginary Power Practice Exams and a practice test by Chaya Engineering. But then I rescheduled because I thought I had covid. Then I watched this video by Zach Stone on the new handbook and read some forum posts and pretty much started panicking that my plan wasn't going to cut it anymore with how the exam is going to be more theory based then problem solving based. I've always been better at solving problems with math and such then theory and I also find it hard to study theory in the first place.

So now I had to think of a new strategy. I'll take all the workdays off in February leading up to my test. I'll study at least 4+ hours each of those days. Before that, try to get in 8 hours or so a week instead of the 5 I was doing before. As far as studying my first goal is to fill in the few remaining holes I have with the practice exam. It seems like most questions on it already have topics that were asked about them so I'll probably start there. Along with that, combing the Handbook and making sure I at least understand how to use and the theory behind everything as best as I can without deep diving into them. For some parts that's not an issue while I'll need to do some serious research for others. Hopefully I'll be able to find what I need to understand everything, but my google-fu has been pretty weak recently so I might need some help. Once I'm done with that I'll start going at the exams I haven't looked at, making sure to save one for the full practice exam I still plan to do in February.

But that was just my original plan with more time to do it in, which I at least feel like won't be enough. For starters I'll watch the free videos by Zach Stone for sure, I already watched the one on Per Unit and plan on watching it again now that I've had more practical experience using it to hopefully cement my understanding of it, along with a few others I've already watched. I also plan to buy his practice exam book since people have praised it a lot. Cram for the PE and Engineering Pro Guides are also pretty common recommendations, but getting them all would start racking up in cost pretty quickly and I only have about a month to study with, so getting them all wouldn't be worth it. The four ones from Engineering Pro Guides all seem like good choices to me without being so much I wouldn't be able to use them effectively, though their PDF rules make me reluctant to pay for them, but especially the code exam especially seemed good since I'm really at a loss how to study the code without passing out. With only about a month to study and not feeling like they are a good fit for me in general I don't want to do any monthly subscriptions and am not considering them. I might go for one if I fail the exam, but that would mean that I don't give up entirely (I'm about to lose my mind as it is) and don't think I can improve enough to pass the second time.

So ya, this was probably too much, but my anxiety is probably the highest it's been since I decided to take this exam back in March and I have to at least try to alleviate it. Some reassurance that my plan should work out and or some advice on how to correct my plan would go a long way to help. As for the rest of the day I plan to try to relax and enjoy the fact I don't actually have covid. Thank you in advance to anyone who responds.

 
I also used the Power Reference Manual to start studying. While its a good reference manual in general, looking back, I do feel like I wasted a lot of my time getting lost in the minutia of that book. Good news is the book generally gives you too much detail, and if you feel good about the book material, you'll be able to fill in the other holes fast enough. You have just enough time to really hit the main review exams well (NCEES, Eng Pro Guides, and Electrical PE Review ... I haven't taken Cram). Some things I feel the Power Reference Manual doesn't do a good job with is Fault Analysis (MVA and PU method) and Symmetrical Components, look those up online. I don't know if you have much more time to do anything other than practice exams, and honestly I don't think that's a bad way to go.

While I don't like the EngProGuides DRM pdf either, he gives you access for 2 years and will allow you more time/printing if you email him, so keep that in mind. Hopefully you've passed the exam by then and don't need the extension. I haven't looked at EngProGuide's text book ... I powered through Graffeo's book within 1.5 weeks of 2 hour evening study sessions, and it really helped to shift my focus from the Review Manual to relevant study material ... I imagine EngProGuide's textbook will do the same.

For perspective: I haven't taken the exam yet, I'll be taking it later this week. I shifted away from the reference manual about 6 weeks before the exam when I felt I had made a serious mistake in my preparations.  Since then, I have only read Graffeo and done practice exams. Mastering NCEES exam and EngProGuides exam have done wonders for my confidence ... hopefully you'll feel the same once you've mastered them. Good luck!

 
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What helped me a lot was the Electrical PE Review exam and Engineering Pro Guides exams (Full, Final, and Reference). They are worth it. When I first started studying about a year ago I went through the Engineering Pro Guides study guide and learned a lot from that. There are quite a few practice problems in there as well. You will also want the official NCEES Practice Exam as well.

 
Many of us have been working with various practice exams to prep up.

I highly recommend you check up on Zach Stone's Electrical PE Review website. Just Google Electrical PE Review, should be pretty easy to find. He also has put up some of his explanation videos on YouTube. Since I understand you may be limited on time, you may want to concentrate on the areas you are weak on, as well as Machines and Protection since those two are the biggest subject areas in the exam.

I've been working with the following practice exams. At the very least I highly recommend Electrical PE Review and Engineering Pro Guides:

  • Cram for PE Power Exam - 4 separate volumes of practice PE exam questions
  • Electrical PE Review
  • Engineering Pro Guides
  • Shorebrook PE Power Exam
  • PPI PE Power Exam - 2 sets of practice exams
  • Complex Imaginary - 1 book with 4 sets of practice exams
  • NCEES PE Power Exam
  • A.S. Graffeo Reference Handbook - Practice Exam
  • Spin Up PE Power Exam Sets - 1 book with 5 sets of practice exams
 
@adg30  You're doing well! 

Read a few threads here, collect some more study materials.... And if you need to delay your exam date more - do it. There is no shame in delaying because you feel unprepared. Be honest with how you are doing on practice exams and the study material you have. If you dont do well on the NCEES official practice exam in a mock exam, you need to prepare more.

Do practice exams. As many as you can. And then practice what you missed.

If you want a ton of content for the $, do a month of Zach's course and then see how you feel. I will say that it took me over a month to go through (working on it after work and weekends)

I would highly suggest enrolling in Zach's live course and spending more time studying - 100% worth those $$$.

Engineering Pro Guides exams and book are absolutely worth it.

Complex imaginary exams are good practice.

Cram 1 was my favorite, but crams 2,3, and 4 all have some interesting questions. They are hard though. Not a good starting point. His reference manual is good, but i didnt really look at it after everything went CBT. 

Be familiar with the NCEES reference manual and practice using the NEC.

 
Alright, thanks for all the advice and reassurance. I'd have responded sooner but the forum was being updated most of the day, amazing timing.

At any rate, I feel like my initial plan of getting the four Engineering Pro Guide PDFs and the Zach Stone's practice exam (along with another calculator, I only have one) is a good for right now. If I burn through those and my other material and still feel like I need more I have the other options you guys have suggested. I'm feeling much more confident then I was yesterday about how things will go so that's already an improvement.

And this is probably a foolish question, but what all does "Machines and Protection" encompass? Those two have a pretty large range and I honestly don't know where I'd even start with them

 
This is a tough time! Closing in on exam date, trying to figure out how to spend your remaining weeks. OOF!

You mentioned Zach Stones videos - Youtube videos are a great resource! I listed all the videos/channels I used in my studying here. In case there are any there you haven't found yet.

When I wrote, it was still the ol' paper and pencil format. I've been lurking here as the first waves of people do their CBT exams, following along with what has worked for people as far a study strategies for this new type of exam.

I see in your original comment and then all subsequent comments, a lot of the same references are being recommended - and I just wanted to pipe in with my agreements! I listed out my references here and why I liked or didn't like them.

If I  may offer some cheerleading/encouragement - at the time I signed up for the exam, I had 9 weeks before the exam date to study. Seems you have a little over 4 weeks remaining, but lots of studying already under your belt? I broke down my time into 'weeks', made a plan, and focused on writing practice exams and then processing what I learned from those exams. It's based on the pencil & paper format, but perhaps the structure/method will help you frame up how you want to spend your remaining time. Mental health is a big part of the game - you can only do what you can do, so make a plan (you did! yay!) and then execute on it with confidence. Maybe assign yourself a 5 minute window every day where you are allowed to worry/stress, and then put that on the shelf for the rest of the day =P I kid, but actually, I recently heard that on a podcast and while it made me laugh, I may actually try it. I'm a worrier by nature and it's infuriating to waste so much mental time on that!

Good luck!

 
@adg30 Definitely don't forget to get the official NCEES practice exam, it is the closest you'll get to the wording of the actual exam. Personally, I would recommend that's the first exam you get.

 
Alright, thanks for all the advice and reassurance. I'd have responded sooner but the forum was being updated most of the day, amazing timing.

At any rate, I feel like my initial plan of getting the four Engineering Pro Guide PDFs and the Zach Stone's practice exam (along with another calculator, I only have one) is a good for right now. If I burn through those and my other material and still feel like I need more I have the other options you guys have suggested. I'm feeling much more confident then I was yesterday about how things will go so that's already an improvement.

And this is probably a foolish question, but what all does "Machines and Protection" encompass? Those two have a pretty large range and I honestly don't know where I'd even start with them
How'd you do???
 
I also used the Power Reference Manual to start studying. While its a good reference manual in general, looking back, I do feel like I wasted a lot of my time getting lost in the minutia of that book. Good news is the book generally gives you too much detail, and if you feel good about the book material, you'll be able to fill in the other holes fast enough. You have just enough time to really hit the main review exams well (NCEES, Eng Pro Guides, and Electrical PE Review ... I haven't taken Cram). Some things I feel the Power Reference Manual doesn't do a good job with is Fault Analysis (MVA and PU method) and Symmetrical Components, look those up online. I don't know if you have much more time to do anything other than practice exams, and honestly I don't think that's a bad way to go.

While I don't like the EngProGuides DRM pdf either, he gives you access for 2 years and will allow you more time/printing if you email him, so keep that in mind. Hopefully you've passed the exam by then and don't need the extension. I haven't looked at EngProGuide's text book ... I powered through Graffeo's book within 1.5 weeks of 2 hour evening study sessions, and it really helped to shift my focus from the Review Manual to relevant study material ... I imagine EngProGuide's textbook will do the same.

For perspective: I haven't taken the exam yet, I'll be taking it later this week. I shifted away from the reference manual about 6 weeks before the exam when I felt I had made a serious mistake in my preparations. Since then, I have only read Graffeo and done practice exams. Mastering NCEES exam and EngProGuides exam have done wonders for my confidence ... hopefully you'll feel the same once you've mastered them. Good luck!
How'd you do? Sorry... I copied the wrong one.
 
Awesome!! any insight? Thoughts? Best study guides?
I would agree with what others have already posted here, but I'll summarize what was important to me:

1. Prep: Decide when you're going to take it and cancel plans to do anything major between then and now. Sign up for the exam early so you're locked in to a test date. Dedicate yourself to studying during the whole time period and let your friends and family know you're going to be AWOL. Four months is a commonly accepted time-line to prep which I agree with, I couldn't have done it in three. If you're doing anything major in the near future (moving, start new job, holiday plans), don't plan to study during those times and just extend your study calendar more.

2. Decide how you're going to study: I'm the kind of guy who reads a textbook front to back. My first big issue with the Power PE was a lot of the recommendations for how to study were just hear/say from others who were also in the same boat as me. This sucks! Wouldn't it be great if one source would just give you all of the information and you wouldn't have to piece it together by reading forums and different people's opinions? Everyone else on this site recommends Zach Stone's website and it seems to be the one stop shop, I would say follow all of those people. EngProGuides has a textbook and a course too. While I haven't taken either of the courses above, if I had to redo everything on a shorter time-line (i.e. not the covid 1-year time-line) I would have taken a course. I feel it would've made me feel comfortable to be in a group of people doing the same thing I was doing, and having an "expert" to talk to who has prepped others. If you don't want to do that because its expensive or some other reason, I get that. This means you want to take on more responsisbility for prepping yourself, this is the route I chose and it felt lonely but so rewarding at the end. I would say Graffeo's guide to passing the power pe is a very practical guide to a majority of the stuff on the exam, I haven't seen EngProGuide's textbook but I've read its a good source for studying also. For deeper dives into theory and understanding of concepts, I used a mix of Camara's book and google. Online videos are awesome and someone even created a website recently with an awesome collection of videos from different websites. Side note: most books have typos, check for their eratta.

3. I would plan to spend about a month before the exam just doing practice exams/problems rather than "studying" new concepts, then review what you feel weak on. Exams I studied in the order I would recommend them:
a. NCEES Official Practice Exam - Of course do the official exam. Actually, do it more than once.
b. Eng Pro Guide's 2 Exams - Felt this was closest in difficulty and content to the official exam. His website has two exams.
c. Zach Stone's Exam - This is harder/trickier than the above two, but has a good solution guide that become more like studying than a review.
The above 3 are "must have" in my opinion and are good quality exams. I used the two below also:
d. PPI2PASS - while it has some questions that I wouldn't expect on the exam, some conceptual questions on my actual exam were almost identical to this practice exam
e. Graffeo - good for conceptual questions.
I also used the references review exam from eng pro guides which was helpful.
I'd planned to practice on more exams but ran out of time. Remember it takes one day to take a practice exam and over a day to review it well. I spent 75% of a week on one exam, so the four exams covered in a-c above took 3 weeks.

Finally, be flexible and take care of everything else in your life also. Don't let this exam be the reason everything else falls apart. You're doing this PE license for yourself, if you're getting burnt out, its ok to slow down and/or take a break. Keep in mind you get your exam results back quickly (a week) and you can take the exam 3 times a year and once a quarter. So if you're approaching the test date and don't feel prepared, the option to take the exam without being fully ready is just as viable as postponing the exam until you feel a bit more ready. When you're feeling stressed, know you have options. And if you're lost, post here and let the fine people on this forum help.

Good luck!
 
I would agree with what others have already posted here, but I'll summarize what was important to me:

1. Prep: Decide when you're going to take it and cancel plans to do anything major between then and now. Sign up for the exam early so you're locked in to a test date. Dedicate yourself to studying during the whole time period and let your friends and family know you're going to be AWOL. Four months is a commonly accepted time-line to prep which I agree with, I couldn't have done it in three. If you're doing anything major in the near future (moving, start new job, holiday plans), don't plan to study during those times and just extend your study calendar more.

2. Decide how you're going to study: I'm the kind of guy who reads a textbook front to back. My first big issue with the Power PE was a lot of the recommendations for how to study were just hear/say from others who were also in the same boat as me. This sucks! Wouldn't it be great if one source would just give you all of the information and you wouldn't have to piece it together by reading forums and different people's opinions? Everyone else on this site recommends Zach Stone's website and it seems to be the one stop shop, I would say follow all of those people. EngProGuides has a textbook and a course too. While I haven't taken either of the courses above, if I had to redo everything on a shorter time-line (i.e. not the covid 1-year time-line) I would have taken a course. I feel it would've made me feel comfortable to be in a group of people doing the same thing I was doing, and having an "expert" to talk to who has prepped others. If you don't want to do that because its expensive or some other reason, I get that. This means you want to take on more responsisbility for prepping yourself, this is the route I chose and it felt lonely but so rewarding at the end. I would say Graffeo's guide to passing the power pe is a very practical guide to a majority of the stuff on the exam, I haven't seen EngProGuide's textbook but I've read its a good source for studying also. For deeper dives into theory and understanding of concepts, I used a mix of Camara's book and google. Online videos are awesome and someone even created a website recently with an awesome collection of videos from different websites. Side note: most books have typos, check for their eratta.

3. I would plan to spend about a month before the exam just doing practice exams/problems rather than "studying" new concepts, then review what you feel weak on. Exams I studied in the order I would recommend them:
a. NCEES Official Practice Exam - Of course do the official exam. Actually, do it more than once.
b. Eng Pro Guide's 2 Exams - Felt this was closest in difficulty and content to the official exam. His website has two exams.
c. Zach Stone's Exam - This is harder/trickier than the above two, but has a good solution guide that become more like studying than a review.
The above 3 are "must have" in my opinion and are good quality exams. I used the two below also:
d. PPI2PASS - while it has some questions that I wouldn't expect on the exam, some conceptual questions on my actual exam were almost identical to this practice exam
e. Graffeo - good for conceptual questions.
I also used the references review exam from eng pro guides which was helpful.
I'd planned to practice on more exams but ran out of time. Remember it takes one day to take a practice exam and over a day to review it well. I spent 75% of a week on one exam, so the four exams covered in a-c above took 3 weeks.

Finally, be flexible and take care of everything else in your life also. Don't let this exam be the reason everything else falls apart. You're doing this PE license for yourself, if you're getting burnt out, its ok to slow down and/or take a break. Keep in mind you get your exam results back quickly (a week) and you can take the exam 3 times a year and once a quarter. So if you're approaching the test date and don't feel prepared, the option to take the exam without being fully ready is just as viable as postponing the exam until you feel a bit more ready. When you're feeling stressed, know you have options. And if you're lost, post here and let the fine people on this forum help.

Good luck!
Awesome reply!! Thank you!
 
Alright, I'll look into that when I have some time, I have some questions I've compiled that I want to ask right now though. I've done both the Power Sample Exam Camara Exams and they brought forth some deficiencies I have I'd like to iron out.

Voltage Drop:
The basic idea of voltage drop is possibly the most simple and easy thing possible, it's literally just V=IR, but man do some of these problems make it more complicated then that. My main concern right now is what the handbook actually says about voltage drop. The equation they give seems simple enough but while actually trying to understand and use it I'm having some trouble. I dunno if I'm allowed to recreate it here, so I won't, but I assume we all have the handbook to look it up anyway, it's on page 64.

Most of it is fine. I screwed up a handful of things before but I believe I understand those parts now. However I don't understand the 2 and the K entirely, though in writing this I think I get it better, but I still want to make sure because missing a voltage drop question on the exam would be really unfortunate. First the 2 on the top and the 2 in the K for 3 phase. The two is there in the initial equation to get the full length of the run in DC or single phase AC since L is specifically the length one way. The two in the K is there to get rid of that 2 on top because there isn't a reason for it in a 3-phase ac circuit since there isn't a "return" conductor like there is for DC or single phase AC for voltage to drop in. The conductor resistance gotten from table 9 handles all that so you don't have to double the length anymore. I'm pretty sure I have that correct now.

The other part of the K in 3 phase AC I'm still slightly unsure on. The square root of 3 seems to be to take the voltage you got here into line to line voltage since it'll initially be in line to neutral voltage. That makes sense for a wye connection but I'm not sure that makes sense for a delta connection? Though I feel like I read somewhere that you have to do that regardless and the connection doesn't matter, but I'm not sure from where and that seems... off to me, not that a lot of things don't seem off to me that are actually fine.

Motor HP:
So 1 HP = 745.7 watts per the handbook on page 2. Sometimes for problems that give the motor HP I use that to get the watts of the motor. Sometimes that works. Sometimes that doesn't work. From what I can tell for DC motors and single phase AC motors that conversion works just fine, but not with 3 phase motors. It seems like you have to multiply by the square root of 3 and the power factor to get the right watts. Which... I dunno, that's not making a whole lot of sense to me.

I'd also like to confirm something else. From one question I found out that for a motor the rated HP is Pout, so Pin is the horsepower of the motor plus any losses, which is what I expected. That got me wondering if it's the same for a generator? I assume the rated horsepower is still Pout, so Pin would be Pout + the losses, but I'm not entirely sure since I don't know what the standards are for that.

Power Factor Correction:
I'm still working on trying to figure out what my problem actually is with these types of problems but there is two things I can at least ask to confirm that might be the root of my problem. On page 64 and 65 in the handbook it has an equation for power factor correction and an equation to get the capacitance required to change the reactive power by a given value. I've failed to use both multiple times, but I think I might know why looking at them again.

For power is the phase - for leading and + for lagging? I'm pretty sure that's correct, though leading and lagging has always confused me. If that's the case I had it backwards and no wonder it wasn't working right. As for the other equation, it says Vline is the maximum value of the sinusoid, so for a transmission line would you need to multiple the line to line voltage by the square root of 2 to get the peak voltage and use that? If so that might explain my problem with that equation. Even with those two though I feel like the equations might just be wrong, but I doubt that or someone would've pointed out the mistake pretty loudly by now.

Loads between phases:
I had a question on loads between phases but after trying to explain it I think I understand where I was going wrong. I was getting the line to line current through the load and then changing it to line to neutral current to get the current on the phase like the question asked but... it was a wye connection, the line to line current and line to neutral current are the same, so, ah, ops. As for why I can just do S=IV for it without the power factor or the square root of 3 that's because it's not three phase power anymore so the square root of 3 isn't needed and the power factor only needs to exist if I was aiming for watts and I had VA.

That's about all the questions I had lined up for right now. I'll probably have more after I take the pro guides final exam tomorrow and I have time to look it over.
 
I'm pretty sure I have that correct now.

The other part of the K in 3 phase AC I'm still s
The voltage drop equation is for the voltage drop across conductors. You're not being asked for the voltage drop across a wye or delta connected load that's attached to the end of the conductors. You're just looking for the voltage drop across the conductors themselves so they won't be connected in either wye or delta.

You do still have to use the HP conversion for 3 phase. You may need to also cancel out the minutes part of the RPM if it's underneath the HP.

I don't think I've seen any generator problems rated in HP but they may be out there?

The PF leading or lagging is based on what the current is doing relative to the voltage. In general you can set A phase voltage to 0 degrees and use it as your reference. You then just have to look and see if the current is leading + or lagging -. Remember for the power and impedance the angle has to swap signs so the sign will always be opposite of what the sign on the current is.

If you're referencing time in your sinusoid equation then you have to use the max value otherwise you'll use RMS.

In my opinion I would steer clear of the Camara book and prep. That's the route I took when I first started studying and regret it due to the high cost and wasted time. The information is good it's just really out of date. It's missing some of the material and has extra material that's not relevant. It's hard enough studying the material that is actually applicable to the test without adding extra.
 
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Okay so it doesn't matter so the equation they give should work as shown regardless of if it's wye or delta. I guess I have a hard time understanding obtaining a line to neutral voltage in a delta but still having to multiply it by the square root of 3 to get the line to line voltage. I guess I just need to remember that and not let it trip me up

I'm not sure if that answered my question here, unless by "HP conversion" you're implying that what I said about 3 phase was right? Also I don't know what you mean by "minutes part of the RPM if it's underneath the HP." I'm guessing I've just never seen what you've referencing before

Alright, maybe that's just not a thing, which is possible.

Okay good, that's what I thought. I've been mixing that stuff up so much since I started studying I find it hard to trust myself on it anymore. I'll make note of that now that I have confirmation

Alright, so just to make sure, unless it gives the sinusoid equation of the voltage with respect to time you just use the rms voltage it gives? Like a transmission line with a certain line to line voltage, you'd just use the line to line voltage in that equation

Little late for that since I take the exam on the 12th. While I feel like reading the book front to back was primarily a waste of time the two exams from his Power Sample Exams book seem good to me and just looking up specific information got me good results for the manual itself. Maybe about 10 to 15 were questions I don't expect to see anything about on the exam but out of 160 questions that's not that many. I do plan on using ProGuides and Zach Stone's stuff from here to the test though
 

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