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Crack house areas in Fayetteville??? NO WAY....

I agree with you, I don't think we can even consider all these MAJOR changes in lifestyles that some may suggest. How am I supposed to sell a house that's going down in price to move into the city (which I wouldn't do anyway!!) but it's not practical and won't happen. How am I supposed to ride a bike from Raleigh, where I live, to downtown Fayetteville?? I'm not going to. I think we can do some things to cut back on, and try to conserve a bit, but these sweeping changes would create such a drain on our society I would predict setting us back over 100 years.

Better start looking at Nuclear energy FAST!

[SIZE=18pt]WARNING: THIS IS A BIG PET PEEVE OF MINE!!![/SIZE]
Okay, we are ranting and raving here, which is fine and dandy but look at the big picture. Plenty of people are considering all these major life style changes, but there are small things that can be done, and I don't think anyone is really looking at them.

Riding a bike to work is wonderful, you would get great excercise and probably be a "better person" (mental advantages would be more time to meditate, physical advantages of excercise, and you conscience would know you were doing something for the environment) BUT the first time it is raining and you have a big meeting that requires a three piece suit, your going to drive, and then there will be that 100 degree day where you don't want to end up at the office in the morning all sticky and smelly so you'll drive and your plan to bike has now turned around and you are driving most days anyway. On top of that, the time you have to invest in the morning has probably doubled or tripled depending on your physical fitness level so now your getting up earlier just to get to the same place on time, AND as stated earlier, many metro areas are not well suited for commuting on two wheels. (I have been at a place where driving was not an option, and can give solutions to many of these issues but not all as I either biked or walked to work every day, but I was in a city that it was not dangerous to share the road)

For us here, public transportation sucks. The stops are on the major arterials but the subdivisions are so large to get to the bus stop, I would have to walk a few miles, and then once dropped off walk another mile thru the crack house neighborhood that I work in. Maybe it's the military town feeling, but I don't think the bus system will ever really take off despite all the plans to improve it and for many people it's just not an option.

I have never lived in a city that was so spread out as Fayetteville, NC. I think the tallest building here is maybe 12 or 13 stories. I live with in walking distance to the mall, but I'm not gonna do that because even though it's right around the corner, I would have to cross 6 lanes of traffic on one road and then another few with about 4 lanes. It's only 8 miles (one way) to work for me, and I considered riding a bike, but again, I would be on a four lane road for more then half of that and none are designed for that purpose (ie. one road in particular considers the two foot curb as lane so we are talking what feels like a ten foot lane going 45 mph next to you)

Another thing, while we complain, most of us have options of going out and buying a more fuel efficent car, or as big of a change as looking to relocate to an area to cut back the commute, and although we are all talking we probably can afford the increase by tightening up our wallets... a great portion of our society is forced to do the list below out of necessity because they are living pay check to pay check. (I'm not just plain assuming that because this is an engineer website that those options are true options, but we can all afford internet, so we can't be too bad off...)

Other options that should be considered possibly would be...

  • hey, does anyone you work with live near you? CARPOOL!
  • make your kids use the transportation provided by the school or work it out with other parents to arrange rides
  • make a shopping list and only go to run errands once a week (by the way this will save you more money then just gas money and take the car that gets the best mpg to do the errands, just switching from me doing them with the ford to our VW passat cut back my trips to the pumps)
  • brown bag your lunch at work so you aren't cranking up your car to go get food at noon (another way to save money while saving money)
  • Do you ever use your personal vehicle for work? Keep track, if your company doesn't do the whole reimbursment it will pay off during tax time. If required to use your personal vehicle, schedule your field work and meetings considering the locations.

I promise I won't go on much longer, and if you have made it this far please hang in....

There are research projects that have been in the works for YEARS to address our resources, and these are often ignored by the media. http://www.esf.edu/pubprog/brochure/willow/willow.htm Just one example and there are others. There are renewable resources available, but they are being ignored. AND I could also start in with the amount of resources that go untapped due to political issues..... or the profit margins remaining somewhat unchanged for the oil companies despite the increase...but that's a whole other posting. Oh yeah, and what about the whole supply and demand thing.... if any of us as a large mass were actually doing what we say and cutting back the demand would go down... increasing the supply... lowering prices and the cycle starts... I think that was like 6th grade economics or something.

Personally, I might get a new car if when I find a new job my commute is what I expect it to be (after all I only get about 16 mpg on the highway, and we just bought a house WAY out in the country), but I'm not going to stop going to the movies, or stop taking vacations or anything of the like just because gas prices have gone up. Things are gonna balance themselves out, the price will stop increasing and eventually we will all adjust our own lives accordingly until the next time.

Ok, I'll shut up now....
 
Crack house areas in Fayetteville??? NO WAY....
I agree with you, I don't think we can even consider all these MAJOR changes in lifestyles that some may suggest. How am I supposed to sell a house that's going down in price to move into the city (which I wouldn't do anyway!!) but it's not practical and won't happen. How am I supposed to ride a bike from Raleigh, where I live, to downtown Fayetteville?? I'm not going to. I think we can do some things to cut back on, and try to conserve a bit, but these sweeping changes would create such a drain on our society I would predict setting us back over 100 years.

Better start looking at Nuclear energy FAST!
Oh yeah, walk out your office door and head down Gillespie street (stopping to admire all the additional diagonal parking and the brand new signal at Franklin Street that has come to be... yes I helped with that and spent a few hours getting sunburned in the process), if you turn on "Blunt" Street (Blount Street) and head left after a block or two you can see the back of our facilities and the spots where the fencing has been cut for some smart crooks to obtain copper wire (no longer stored there) Good thing Cohen and Green knows to look for a COF tag and can figure out if people are trying to cash in on a signal head or scrap metal that it probably came from us! (Okay, I'm probably being a little sarcastic, but not really). And WHAT is up with the steady decline of Roma's Pizza? So much for food that doesn't kill one with out having to drive!

Anyway, you said my point in so many less words (do I like seeing myself type?) it's a whole bunch of little things that are feasible and effective.

 
Damn 'gurl, you get inspired, you throw it down!

For those in the transpo / land development end of civil, this is what we're faced with; undoing the sins of our forefathers thru the 50's where EVERYTHING was planned around the car, and said car's quickest route from point A to point B, pedestrians & alternate forms of transport be damned! No where is this more profoundly apparant than the west coast cluster f$cks of Phoenix or LA [i mean cluster f#ck in strictly a transportation way]

 
Damn 'gurl, you get inspired, you throw it down!For those in the transpo / land development end of civil, this is what we're faced with; undoing the sins of our forefathers thru the 50's where EVERYTHING was planned around the car, and said car's quickest route from point A to point B, pedestrians & alternate forms of transport be damned! No where is this more profoundly apparant than the west coast cluster f$cks of Phoenix or LA [i mean cluster f#ck in strictly a transportation way]
I didn't even mention my latest and greatest request! Can we lower the speed limit on a roadway to 35 mph so that an electric car would be legal? It's a grand idea, but politically speaking... how many people would we tick off?!? Way too many to do it....yet... maybe when more of those planned developments go in, ya know the ones with houses, town houses stores and doc offices all mixed together? Kinda like they had in the olden days.... hmmmm....

 
I didn't even mention my latest and greatest request! Can we lower the speed limit on a roadway to 35 mph so that an electric car would be legal? It's a grand idea, but politically speaking... how many people would we tick off?!? Way too many to do it....yet... maybe when more of those planned developments go in, ya know the ones with houses, town houses stores and doc offices all mixed together? Kinda like they had in the olden days.... hmmmm....
Hey, history can be looked at as being somewhat cyclical. . . and i think with the context sensitive design solutions out there, we are coming back around to some elements from the old colonial style days. The auto didn't kill the concepts from those colonial towns & villages, transportation advances had already set the flight to outlying areas & suburbs in motion, planting the seeds of sprawl & poor layout.

 
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Hey, history can be looked at as being somewhat cyclical. . . and i think with the context sensitive design solutions out there, we are coming back around to some elements from the old colonial style days. The auto didn't kill the concepts from those colonial towns & villages, transportation advances had already set the flight to outlying areas & suburbs in motion.
agreed (somewhat), I do think that society will be moving to adapt as a whole (did I say that earlier?) and that again, as long as each person is satisfied with their own footprint then that is what it will be.... our wallets will not dictate anything we will earn more money to solve that problem. There are quite a few out there that are willing to make those major changes, but not enough to help right now (the glass is half empty on this I guess) with the immediate and pending inflation that is somewhat overdue..??? Now I'm playing the devils adcovate here.... by the way... what did the gas prices in Europe look like compared to ours lately?

Point- we modeled our country after others, then adapted for growth... that is a loooong process. Now we might be done growing and be catching up to what some have already found suited for a teenage/adult country.

 
Willow trees?

Why Willow?
  • Willows are easily propagated from unrooted cuttings.
  • High yields can be obtained in a few years.
  • Willow’s genetic diversity and short breeding cycle can be utilized to produce improved varieties.
  • Willows vigorously resprout after each harvest.
  • The amount of heat in a dry ton of willow is similar to other hardwoods.
  • An array of bark and foliage colors creates opportunities for visually stunning landscape designs.
The media ignore this stuff because it is crap (maybe that's too strong a statement, please don't be offended). But really, there is only so much land available to cultivate crops and I'm not sure how much we can spare for "growing" energy (a la biomass). We already see this becoming a problem with ethanol causing a shortage in global food supplies, and ethanol hasn't even made a dent in gasoline sales.

The problem with "alternative" energy is scale. Some of the alternatives have promise, but few of them do on the scale required to have much of an impact. Plus you have the whole problem you mentioned about free markets--supply and demand drive prices, which in turn drive invention and innovation. Energy prices have not yet reached a point where the alternatives are economcially attractive on a large scale.

The crux of the problem is scale, and a lot of people don't really understand how much energy they actually use. Consider that a pound of coal can produce approximately 1 kWh of electricity. Then figure out how much you use each year--it's probably in the neighborhood of 5 tons a year--that's about a dumptruck load--just of electricity at your house. Also consider that residential electricity use is only 1/3 of all electricty use--commercial and industrial make up the rest. Then throw in heating (natural gas/fuel oil/propane) and gasoline. It quickly becomes apparent that a few willow trees, a windmill and a couple solar panels isn't going to cut it.

The conclusion that several people on this board have come to, including myself and Wolverine--and apparently NCCarguy--is nuclear is the only feasible, large-scale solution for the medium term.

As for deducting your mileage at tax time, keep in mind this only helps if it exceeds 2% of your gross income.

And as for gasoline prices in Europe--feel free to lobby the government to raise the gas tax by $2/gallon. I doubt it would go over well, but I'm actually all for it--that (increasing prices) is the best way to force change. But keep in mind the population density in Europe is three times what it is here; part of why their public transportation systems are better (plus the fact they pay enormous amounts of taxes).

Just my six cents.

 
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our bonehead governor is "taking a break" from the state gas tax for the summer, GA already has I think the 2nd lowest gas tax in the nation, roads only get more expensive to repair the longer you wait, kind of stupid IMO. I believe the gas tax is one of the purest tax forms, dont want to pay the tax? dont drive......

 
our bonehead governor is "taking a break" from the state gas tax for the summer, GA already has I think the 2nd lowest gas tax in the nation, roads only get more expensive to repair the longer you wait, kind of stupid IMO. I believe the gas tax is one of the purest tax forms, dont want to pay the tax? dont drive......
Good point ...

Also, I was up in Thomasville, GA this evening. I noted that gas prices there were $3.97/gal, whereas in Tallahassee they are $3.99/gal. What happened to the cheaper GA gasoline??

JR

 
Not to stir a political argument but I heard my boss and a co-worker yesterday saying that this, the high prices on gasoline, is what we get for putting in the office a Texan President and a VP with interests on the oil field.

I have an idea of what they are saying but am not sure. Are they referring to you know who? (and not THE YKW)

 
I guess that would make a connection, but the things in the middle east, 911, etc alll drive up the cost of oil, if anything I would expect for them to use their connections to get more oil produced, which they havent , which is pretty f&*$d up IMP

 
Willow trees?


The media ignore this stuff because it is crap (maybe that's too strong a statement, please don't be offended). But really, there is only so much land available to cultivate crops and I'm not sure how much we can spare for "growing" energy (a la biomass). We already see this becoming a problem with ethanol causing a shortage in global food supplies, and ethanol hasn't even made a dent in gasoline sales.

The problem with "alternative" energy is scale. Some of the alternatives have promise, but few of them do on the scale required to have much of an impact. Plus you have the whole problem you mentioned about free markets--supply and demand drive prices, which in turn drive invention and innovation. Energy prices have not yet reached a point where the alternatives are economcially attractive on a large scale.

The crux of the problem is scale, and a lot of people don't really understand how much energy they actually use. Consider that a pound of coal can produce approximately 1 kWh of electricity. Then figure out how much you use each year--it's probably in the neighborhood of 5 tons a year--that's about a dumptruck load--just of electricity at your house. Also consider that residential electricity use is only 1/3 of all electricty use--commercial and industrial make up the rest. Then throw in heating (natural gas/fuel oil/propane) and gasoline. It quickly becomes apparent that a few willow trees, a windmill and a couple solar panels isn't going to cut it.

The conclusion that several people on this board have come to, including myself and Wolverine--and apparently NCCarguy--is nuclear is the only feasible, large-scale solution for the medium term.

As for deducting your mileage at tax time, keep in mind this only helps if it exceeds 2% of your gross income.

And as for gasoline prices in Europe--feel free to lobby the government to raise the gas tax by $2/gallon. I doubt it would go over well, but I'm actually all for it--that (increasing prices) is the best way to force change. But keep in mind the population density in Europe is three times what it is here; part of why their public transportation systems are better (plus the fact they pay enormous amounts of taxes).

Just my six cents.
Your right nothing in itself is probably going to cut it in terms of alternative fuels... and I have no issues with nuclear, but I do see one problem... obtaining the support for it from the uneducated masses who shutter at the word. I have always gotten reimbursed for mileage where I work... oh wait... worked... so that's why I had to keep track of it, but a lot of people don't bother because it "doesn't" add up (which it does eventually). And my references to Europe were merely to point out that it isn't any cheaper then here. And no offense taken, much of what I rant about is often just for the sake of debating. :deadhorse: On a side note (again just to see who has a response) maybe we would have more land avaliable if there weren't so many regulations... but if those weren't in place then I guess we would just use the land for more available oil if existing... hmmmmmm......

 
well mudpuppy, you do have to admit that no matter what we end up using has to have the backing of the people using it... do you really think that how many Americans will get on board with nuclear power of any sort?
Maybe not so much in Pennsylvania. . .. .

We got a plant down in Benton Harbor making power as we speak, and no 3-eyed fish showing up in the Big Lake (L. Michigan) yet

 
I disagree with your premise that it has to have the backing of those using it--it just has to not be opposed by the majority of those using it. This may seem like a subtle distinction, but I think it is an important one. From what I've seen, many (and I mean a lot of) Americans are oblivious or just plain don't care--and we can count them out of the equation from the get-go.

From the limited exposure I've had to nuke plants, the general consensus of those who live around the one nearest to me seems like they support the plant and are not unhappy having it nearby--it is clean, provides ~1000 jobs (and the employees live in the local community) and provide huge amounts of property taxes to the local jurisdictions.

Granted, building a new nuclear plant would probably generate a huge NIMBY stink, but expanding at existing locations would be much more palatable to the communites involved.

I read an article a while back that said the general opinion of nuclear was on the rise--I don't have it handy so I can't quote the numbers. But, Patrick Moore, one of the founders of Greenpeace, has actually flip-flopped and now supports nuclear (article here). And if this can happen, then yes, I think nuclear can win enough support stage a resurgence.

 
considering you said "yet" argues my point... the cynic population won't go for it.
Ah, it was just a nod to the Simpsons actually - the f'n zebra mussells or sea lampreys will do more harm (and have done so) to the native fish populations in the great lakes than that plant will - At least the plant's controllable, measurable, alterable.

 
I disagree with your premise that it has to have the backing of those using it--it just has to not be opposed by the majority of those using it. This may seem like a subtle distinction, but I think it is an important one. From what I've seen, many (and I mean a lot of) Americans are oblivious or just plain don't care--and we can count them out of the equation from the get-go.
From the limited exposure I've had to nuke plants, the general consensus of those who live around the one nearest to me seems like they support the plant and are not unhappy having it nearby--it is clean, provides ~1000 jobs (and the employees live in the local community) and provide huge amounts of property taxes to the local jurisdictions.

Granted, building a new nuclear plant would probably generate a huge NIMBY stink, but expanding at existing locations would be much more palatable to the communites involved.

I read an article a while back that said the general opinion of nuclear was on the rise--I don't have it handy so I can't quote the numbers. But, Patrick Moore, one of the founders of Greenpeace, has actually flip-flopped and now supports nuclear (article here). And if this can happen, then yes, I think nuclear can win enough support stage a resurgence.

I can take that, at least you backed your arguement and didn't just start ranting about the Iraq war and politics and what not... oh wait wrong post... anyway... your right the good majority of people don't really care, it's the outspoken ones and the media that would make a big stink and that could go either way depending on how you play communicating the benefits versus any negative aspects... it's all in the sales pitch.

 
My commute WAS 130 mi. round trip, completely unpaid (commuting student). Though still unemployed, I figure i'm almost makin' $$ in comparison to my school fuel expenditures!! Self, would you like a raise? Why that would be great self! Then end thy commute, self. Done! [straight cash homey]
:lmao:

Squishles - buy the bike!!

Ok, back to the debate... :popcorn:

 
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