To Vaccinate or Not To Vaccinate - that is the question

[DVINNY]

I've seen debates for weeks about this vaccination thing, I shake my head, as I believe people are completely missing the larger threat.

They are concerned about a few 'anti-vax' people, while millions of illegal immigrants are allowed into the country each year, and I doubt very many of them at all have been vaccinated. I'd be less concerned about the soccer mom who wants to hold off on getting a shot for her kid, then the guy coming from an Ebola breakout area and crossing our borders.

How many foreign people visit Disneyland? and do they have to meet vaccination requirements? (I'm seriously asking, as I do not know the regulations)


All I know, it seems like these National 'crisis' type events and arguments happen, then the government seems to have just the right fix. I suspect something is coming.


And just for the record, my opinion on vaccinations:
1. Yes, my kids are vaccinated
2. We did not do any combo vaccines, but scheduled more visits for individual shots.
3. I do struggle with freedoms vs. having government force us to do anything, but the risk/reward ratio is very high in this instance, IMO

 

[Road Guy]

I agree with you

But I will add, as someone whose kid was (mis) diagnosed with having autism at 2 years old (he didn't talk till he was nearly 4) people cant understand the range of emotions that happen when you are faced with the possibility that something has happened to your child that YOU were essentially the cause of. Weird **** goes through your mind. For our other two kids we spaced the vaccines out as far as possible based on the emotions that we went through, but we still got them vaccinated.

However I can understand where peoples emotions come from and for people that have never had something like to deal with they need not be so quick to judge. Hell our physician, who said he had autism, looked up our kids records and said "Wow he got the vaccine that had the really high mercury content" That alone would cause most people to freak out, as it did us..

And most schools you cannot enroll in without vaccination records. Maybe in California they don't require it but I have never enrolled my kid in any school that didn't require proof of vaccines..

 

[Dleg]

One of the reasons the government responded to the undocumented children crisis was exactly for that reason - it was declared to be a public health emergency, and that gave the federal government the ability to hold the immigrants and administer the necessary vaccinations and medical exams. As for the other illegal immigrants, you got me. :dunno: By definition, they sneak in a few at a time, across several thousand miles of borderland, and intentionally evade detection. Is that a public health problem? Probably. What can be done about it? Probably exactly what is happening now - a whole lot of arguing between different political parties, governments, federal, state, and local agencies.

As for the foreign tourists at Disneyland, you might be surprised to learn that the developed world is, in large part, extremely well vaccinated, and likely better vaccinated than the American public because there is no tolerance for idiotic personal decisions that endanger everyone else.

 

[Road Guy]

the undocumented children, when they go sign up for their free school, they usually get told where they can go receive some free vaccinations.. so they eventually get caught up...

 

[Dleg]

Oh and by the way I also have a child with autism, which fortunately has turned out to be pretty high functioning. There is a lot of bad information out there about vaccinations. If you Google it, and aren't inclined to do extensive research, aren't scientifically educated, or are susceptible to paranoia and conspiracy theories, you will likely come away not trusting vaccination. I felt that way for about the first week or so after receiving my son's diagnosis, until I was able to wade through all the Google hits and come upon the AMA and CDC information. After reading that, I felt confident that the vaccinations had not been the cause, because if well-designed and carefully controlled studies do not show a correlation, that outweighs any number of anecdotal stories about kids developing autism right away after receiving the shots. And since then, there have been dozens more studies that have found the same thing, and none that have not (none that were properly designed, conducted, and peer reviewed, that is).

Like DVINNY, I think there is a larger threat out there. We have people concerned about a handful of vaccinations, while every day we eat, drink, breathe, and surround our bodies with hundreds of thousands of man-made chemical compounds, of which only a few hundred or so have ever been tested to any degree. Most are not, and nor are the billions of possible combinations of these substances, or the other substances that are created when our bodies (and the microorganisms that live in our bodies) metabolize them.

I took an environmental toxicology course through Johns Hopkins a couple of years ago. Most interesting course I have ever taken. Many scientists believe that there very well may be some environmental cause behind the increase in autism we have seen in the U.S., but it is extremely unlikely to be vaccinations, because that link has been studied exhaustively. There are massive studies underway (the National Children's Study is one of many), which are measuring exposures and what turns up in hundreds of thousands of kid's blood and bodily fluids over time. Hopefully studies like that will lead to the identification of substances that are behind autism and other disorders. There's even some thought that the obesity epidemic may have an environmental trigger. It may very well turn out that something as ubiqiutous as some food packaging material, or dyes used in children's books, or some household cleaner or shampoo is the root cause of autism, or even something like Alzheimer's. But it's like looking for a needle that is disguised as a piece of hay, hidden somewhere in a million haystacks. Which of course makes it so tempting to just lay the blame on vaccinations.

 

[Road Guy]

I thought Climate Change was responsible for the Obesity Epidemic?

Is it really an epidemic?

 

[Dleg]

^I don't know. Some people say it is. I don't live there, so I really can't say. When I visit Denver, people look reasonably fit and healthy. When I watch TV, it seems like everyone in the US is overweight, especially the kids. I'm tempted to just think it's a lifestyle thing - everyone sits on their ***** playing videogames and surfing facebook on their phones and tablets. But I have read stuff from actual scientists (some, not many) who have speculated that there could be some environmental trigger that people are being exposed to.

 

[Road Guy]

Oh they are definitely fatter, but who really cares, I wouldn't call it an epidemic. The world is overpopulated. People were not meant to live this long. So to counteract all the people that don't die due to vaccinations, people need to die off due to being overweight, smokers, binge drinkers, etc. every action has an equal and opposite reaction (or some ****)...

 

[Dleg]

I'd be in full agreement of that if it was true, but unfortunately the only thing a fat population does is increase health care costs for the rest of us, in order to medically provide for the same longevity through bypass surgeries, diabetes care, and the hundreds of other disorders and diseases that result from lack of exercise and a poor diet. We've simply gotten too good, as a species, of keeping people alive. Kind of like the opposite of evolution.

 

[Road Guy]

Well since obamacare only raised taxes on the wealthiest 1% of Americans I guess it won't cost me anything...

 

[DVINNY]

you might be surprised to learn ............. there is no tolerance for idiotic personal decisions that endanger everyone else.

for years I've used that same argument about smoking. (most on here know how anti-smoking I am)

I call it someone's idiotic personal decision that endangers everyone else.

Smoking is still legal, so I suppose using that same logic, people should be able to opt-out of vaccines.

My opinion is to get vaccinated and ban smoking. Other than that, I'm all about keeping freedoms.

 

[Road Guy]

I don't know. Every time I see a fat guy smoking I think to myself "just a tad more social security money for me".......(not that I am not just a little fat )

 

[Dleg]

If people want to be free to choose whether to vaccinate or not, then they should also be required to accept legal responsibility for that decision. If their sick child infects someone else's infant and that infant dies, then the parents of that infant, as well as hospital that provided the care, should be able to recover damages on principle of negligence. And likewise, any school, restaurant, or theme park that allows unvaccinated kids should also be subject to liability for that decision.

That's fair, right?

 

[Lumber Jim]

We opted out of the hep A vaccine since It usually doesn't show much for symptoms, is rare, and is not a chronic illness. Our doctor told us that he can't tell us not to get it but he said his children did not receive it. We like our doctor and trust him. (Similar values, a little older than we are, and we see him in church...)

We also believe that if our kids play in the sand box at our house and end up eating a little dirt, no biggie. If you bring your kid over to our house and he eats a little dirt and gets sick, not my problem. It's dirt. I can't see how I would be responsible for it. If I bring my sick kid to your house knowing he's sick and he infects your kid, I'm an a$$ and should take responsibility. I think the role switches again if you sue me over the sniffles...

We have the rest of the vaccines administered when recommended per our doctor's recommendations.

I don't think we are being negligent.

 

[ALBin517]

I had to double-up on a couple vaccines when I enrolled at Florida State.

I'd got them all as an infant and had the records to prove it but needed a second shot of some.

 

[Road Guy]

The country is still too populated I say get you and your children vaccinated and then encourage as many people as you can to not get vaccinated.

Especially if you haven't had children yet and you plan to vote for Hillary then I would recommend not getting vaccinated

 

[envirotex]

So my kids have been vaccinated...but here's my experience.

Kid #1: Got the measles from the vaccine (and so did I when a got a booster in my late teens because it was going around at my university).

Kid #2: Vaccinated for chicken pox, got them anyway.

Also, I think SOME of the hysteria about the measles is unwarranted because when the measles were prevalent in the US, the medications (in the US) that we had to treat the symptoms are not as good as what were have today (in the US), so my guess is that the mortality from the measles would be significantly less than is was the last time we had an outbreak in the 1970s.

That being said, vaccinations (especially MMR and varicella) are very safe and prevent most children from ever having the discomfort of going through these diseases. So vaccinate your children.

 

[SNAPE/SMOTT PE]

As a parent who has an autistic child....eerily similar to Temple Grandin (did not speak until 1 week before 5th birthday, we should take out stock in yoplait yogurt she eats so much), I do not believe vaccinations caused the autism.

She had signs from an infant of being autistic (only played with orange colored blocks, lining up toys). I believe she inherited autism from me, and definitely feel genetics has a lot to do with it.

Still had my youngest vaccinated....she's neurotypical. Both my kids have the same biological parents....same genes.

And I agree that there are greater threats coming across our southern border.

 

[Road Guy]

In the mid to late 90's there were lots of doctors who told their patients parents it was the mercury in the vaccines... People put too much trust in their doctors and most doctors dot know how to give bad news or even have the humble ability to say " I don't know / there is no reason.. Maybe these days they don't say that to parents but a lot of this started because some doctors didn't know the answer but felt like they had to say something...

I got so many vaccines when I joined the army I think my system could take just about anything because we got 6-7 shots in BOTH arms... And then they made us do push-ups till we couldn't move our arms....

 

[engineergurl]

I got so many vaccines when I joined the army I think my system could take just about anything because we got 6-7 shots in BOTH arms... And then they made us do push-ups till we couldn't move our arms....

I am going to pull a Capt. (MISS YOU CW) - guess what happened this week? everybody we know went red for their vaccines and guess which one they need to go get?

I looked it up last week and supposedly the MMR is good for a lifetime after you get the second shot, and like you said, you get a ton when you first get in, so shouldn't have they gotten another booster or something. Just saying.